Arizona Immigration Law, Is this true?

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Jim must be typing a book! He's been "posting" forever.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Jim must be typing a book! He's been "posting" forever.

I was actually reading the law!

http://azstarnet.com/news/pdf_64720634-4e56-11df-9876-001cc4c03286.html

[luckytxn 2,264]

There has always been laws that one must prove who they are if law enforcement asks, like having a state ID or license. People have always been arrested if no Identity could be established and detained until identity was established. Now any moron should be able to figure this out. The law gives law enforcement the authority to do what we hire them for and that is to enforce the law. If they suspect someone is an illegal alien then they should investigate this and see if they are and if so then do as we have hired them for and arrest the law breaker. I also have always had to been able to have to prove who I was by a legal ID if asked by law enforcement. Illegals are no better than I am and should have to be able to also. An illegal alien is a law breaker. I also feel that an employer is a law breaker if he knowingly hires someone here illegal. I also think anyone that rents out an abode to an illegal is a lawbreaker if they know they are renting to an illegal.

It is obvious that our Federal government is more concerned about Socialism than securing our borders. We have laws already in place they are not enforcing because they are so over reaching themselves on other stuff that states should be doing. So I am glad a state and I hope others do it too start placing laws and doing what the Feds should be doing. My hat is off to Arizona and I so hope Texas grows some balls and does the same.

[K and L 27]

Well because it goes beyond a single group. I look German, so therefore the police have an excuse to arrest me at anytime in Arizona.

Then there is the fascist idea of "What a legal person looks like". Is there a model in every police station? Perhaps an Abercrombie and Fitch employee?

Let's be real. It's Arizona. They really only care about illegal Mexicans, so if you don't look Latino, or if you speak good English, they probably cbf to ask you to prove it.

Me, I keep my passport in my purse, and have ever since I was detained for nearly 5 hours by CBP 75 miles from the NM-Mexico border at a mobile checkpoint off of I-25 (also known as "well within US territory") 5 years ago because they thought I was an illegally entered Mexican with false paperwork.

I fear what CBP + AZPOST will end up doing with this new law.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

There has always been laws that one must prove who they are if law enforcement asks, like having a state ID or license. People have always been arrested if no Identity could be established and detained until identity was established. Now any moron should be able to figure this out. The law gives law enforcement the authority to do what we hire them for and that is to enforce the law. If they suspect someone is an illegal alien then they should investigate this and see if they are and if so then do as we have hired them for and arrest the law breaker. I also have always had to been able to have to prove who I was by a legal ID if asked by law enforcement. Illegals are no better than I am and should have to be able to also. An illegal alien is a law breaker. I also feel that an employer is a law breaker if he knowingly hires someone here illegal. I also think anyone that rents out an abode to an illegal is a lawbreaker if they know they are renting to an illegal.

It is obvious that our Federal government is more concerned about Socialism than securing our borders. We have laws already in place they are not enforcing because they are so over reaching themselves on other stuff that states should be doing. So I am glad a state and I hope others do it too start placing laws and doing what the Feds should be doing. My hat is off to Arizona and I so hope Texas grows some balls and does the same.

Actually no....... Most areas have Stop and Identify laws but these do not necessarily require a physical ID be shown.

And lets be honest luckytxn....you may be white with a nice thick texas accent. There is nothing in this law to stop a cop from throwing you in Jail overnight because you can't show a passport or birth certificate.

Edited April 24, 2010 by Sousuke

[Ban Hammer 13,262]

Actually no....... Most areas have Stop and Identify laws but these do not necessarily require a physical ID be shown.

And lets be honest luckytxn....you may be white with a nice thick texas accent. There is nothing in this law to stop a cop from throwing you in Jail overnight because you can't show a passport or birth certificate.

i've got something just as good as the above - a kansas cch - available only to usc's.

[luckytxn 2,264]

Actually no....... Most areas have Stop and Identify laws but these do not necessarily require a physical ID be shown.

And lets be honest luckytxn....you may be white with a nice thick texas accent. There is nothing in this law to stop a cop from throwing you in Jail overnight because you can't show a passport or birth certificate.

Actually there is something and that is lawsuits. No matter what laws they pass and what law enforcement does I can and will sue them gladly if they try to throw me in jail if they think I was here illegally. The law I just read even says they have to make the effort to identify me and also they must have reasonable suspicion I am an illegal. The law also said that they will make inquiries when they come into contact for other reasons like investigating a crime or whatever like stopping for traffic violations. This is all reasonable. Law enforcement is here to investigate crimes and being here illegally is a crime. That means if they have reason to suspect a crime is taking place they should investigate and arrest any suspected criminal. You can love illegals all you want and even hug them all you want but they are still criminals and subject to laws. If I break a law I expect to be arrested if caught.

[luckytxn 2,264]

i've got something just as good as the above - a kansas cch - available only to usc's.

Exactly. I have a drivers license and a concealed handgun license that one can only get by showing legal identification. I carry it with me always. I did years ago forget my wallet at home. I was stopped as my inspection sticker was overdue. He asked for and I said I left my license. He went and looked me up by the info he got from (My name and social security and the license plates on my vehicle. He asked some questions of me that I should know and was satisfied I was who I said I was and let me go. It is all so simple that only morons would be worried about this.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Actually there is something and that is lawsuits. No matter what laws they pass and what law enforcement does I can and will sue them gladly if they try to throw me in jail if they think I was here illegally. The law I just read even says they have to make the effort to identify me and also they must have reasonable suspicion I am an illegal. The law also said that they will make inquiries when they come into contact for other reasons like investigating a crime or whatever like stopping for traffic violations. This is all reasonable. Law enforcement is here to investigate crimes and being here illegally is a crime. That means if they have reason to suspect a crime is taking place they should investigate and arrest any suspected criminal. You can love illegals all you want and even hug them all you want but they are still criminals and subject to laws. If I break a law I expect to be arrested if caught.

Two separate things. This law allows arrest for simply not being able to prove your not illegal. Sure, I agree that if someone commits a crime and is arrested they should have their status checked in Jail and if they are illegal hand them to the Feds immediately. Heck where I live they actually do that! ICE enters the jail and checks everyone.

"E. A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, WITHOUT A WARRANT, MAY ARREST A PERSON

38 IF THE OFFICER HAS PROBABLE CAUSE TO BELIEVE THAT THE PERSON HAS COMMITTED

39 ANY PUBLIC OFFENSE THAT MAKES THE PERSON REMOVABLE FROM THE UNITED STATES."

So if your pulled over for speeding I would assume that is a public offense.

i've got something just as good as the above - a kansas cch - available only to usc's.

Rock on! I'm all about protecting the 2nd Amendment.

Edited April 24, 2010 by Sousuke

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Now maybe "public offense" applies to only arrestable offenses but it seems disambiguous to me. If it really is only an arrestable offense, then yes I guess the issue is moot because the person could be arrested anyway.

Edited April 24, 2010 by Sousuke

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Actually no....... Most areas have Stop and Identify laws but these do not necessarily require a physical ID be shown.

And lets be honest luckytxn....you may be white with a nice thick texas accent. There is nothing in this law to stop a cop from throwing you in Jail overnight because you can't show a passport or birth certificate.

Actually, there is nothing in the law that specifically gives them that authority, either. It doesn't require a police officer to arrest you for not having ID. It doesn't even require that you be able to prove you're legal. What it does do is require a police officer to make a reasonable effort to determine your legal status if they have a reasonable suspicion that you might be illegal. It isn't up to you to prove you're legal. It's up to the police officer to contact federal authorities to make this determination. There is nothing in the law that requires the police officer to arrest or detain you until they've made this determination, though.

The only gray area I see is the "reasonable suspicion" clause. It will be up to the courts to iron this out, but I'll bet it will take a lot more than brown skin and a Spanish accent to meet this requirement.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Actually, there is nothing in the law that specifically gives them that authority, either. It doesn't require a police officer to arrest you for not having ID. It doesn't even require that you be able to prove you're legal. What it does do is require a police officer to make a reasonable effort to determine your legal status if they have a reasonable suspicion that you might be illegal. It isn't up to you to prove you're legal. It's up to the police officer to contact federal authorities to make this determination. There is nothing in the law that requires the police officer to arrest or detain you until they've made this determination, though.

The only gray area I see is the "reasonable suspicion" clause. It will be up to the courts to iron this out, but I'll bet it will take a lot more than brown skin and a Spanish accent to meet this requirement.

Then its a broken law that can't really be enforced.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Two separate things. This law allows arrest for simply not being able to prove your not illegal. Sure, I agree that if someone commits a crime and is arrested they should have their status checked in Jail and if they are illegal hand them to the Feds immediately. Heck where I live they actually do that! ICE enters the jail and checks everyone.

"E. A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, WITHOUT A WARRANT, MAY ARREST A PERSON

38 IF THE OFFICER HAS PROBABLE CAUSE TO BELIEVE THAT THE PERSON HAS COMMITTED

39 ANY PUBLIC OFFENSE THAT MAKES THE PERSON REMOVABLE FROM THE UNITED STATES."

So if your pulled over for speeding I would assume that is a public offense.

Rock on! I'm all about protecting the 2nd Amendment.

That clause allows a police officer to arrest you if there is probable cause to believe you've committed a crime that would make you removable from the US. Nowhere in the INA does it state that an alien can be removed if they can't prove they are not illegal. Denied entry? Yes. But removed from the US? No.

Speeding is in infraction - not a crime. It's not an offense that would warrant removal under the INA.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

That clause allows a police officer to arrest you if there is probable cause to believe you've committed a crime that would make you removable from the US. Nowhere in the INA does it state that an alien can be removed if they can't prove they are not illegal. Denied entry? Yes. But removed from the US? No.

Speeding is in infraction - not a crime. It's not an offense that would warrant removal under the INA.

Which is probably already an arrestable offense.....so whats the point then?

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Then its a broken law that can't really be enforced.

If you mean that it won't result in the mass removal of tens of thousands of illegal immigrants from Arizona, then I would agree.

Police in every state have always had the authority to enforce federal laws by turning someone over to federal authorities if they believe they've violated a federal law. What makes Arizona's law unique is that it requires police to do this.