If you have an accent

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

Taking apart the 14th amendment is tackling the problem from the wrong end. If you fix the illegal immigration problem, then it becomes a non-issue.

True. As it applies to illegal immigration, Yes. If there were no economic incentive for women to come here and drop an anchor baby, they would not do so.

I think, Mox, what we have here (and I do not object to the idea of changing this law, per se) is another attempt to say "See, we DID something" when in fact, nothing is done to reduce illegal immigration.

Illegal immigration is overwhelmingly an economic phenomenon. The people come for $$$, employers hire them for $$$. ANY "solution" that isn't economic in nature is smoke and mirrors and doomed to fail.

It is economically feasible to immigrate illegally and work for in the USA because ...

1. It is easy to find work (at the wages they work for)

2. The penalty for getting caught is virtually nothing and at worst deportation

And it is economically feasible to hire illegal workers because.

1. It puts more money in your pocket to avoid all the labor laws, wage and hour laws, etc.

2. The penalty for getting caught is so low as to not offset the economic gain

Employers are the "source". They are the "prize". If there is no gold in the mine, no one digs for gold there. They are the "gold". That is a big reason why I suggest going after employers FIRST. There are many other reasons which are all tied to the success of elimnating the problem...

1. There are less employers than employees. Easier to monitor.

2. Employers are known, or at least most of them are, illegal immigrants are anonymous.

3. Going after employers for violating wage and hour and safety laws gets the phony liberals on your side. It is hard for anyone with a functioning brain to oppose providing a safe working environment, wage laws, child labor laws, sexual harassment laws, etc. Works great when the opposition cannot oppose your ideas...because you use THEIR ideas.

4. No one accuses you of being a racist for targeting "greedy American employers"

5. Few people with funtioning brains and a spinal cord oppose verifying legal presence for taxpayer paid goodies like welfare, schools, medical care, etc. Politicians cannot do so, at least not publically, not even liberal democrat politicians

[Cixelsyd 1]

I was debating the nature of how to best curb illegal immigration with a coworker of mine.

Of course we had disagreements on the best method to handle this issue.

He said my Tigers would be too territorial and I said his pack of Wolves just wouldn't be aggressive enough.

Well, I suppose I'm poking fun over the issue of illegal immigration. I guess I look at it like the issue of homosexual marriage: Is this really the most pressing issue we should be addressing?

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

I was debating the nature of how to best curb illegal immigration with a coworker of mine.

Of course we had disagreements on the best method to handle this issue.

He said my Tigers would be too territorial and I said his pack of Wolves just wouldn't be aggressive enough.

Well, I suppose I'm poking fun over the issue of illegal immigration. I guess I look at it like the issue of homosexual marriage: Is this really the most pressing issue we should be addressing?

Yes. It is a very pressing issue for the Federal government who seems to think they can play around in health care, the auto industry, bank bailouts, education etc., NONE of which are roles for the federal government in this country and ignore our borders and the fact that hundreds of thousands of employers thumb their nose at our federal laws and increase the financial burden on US. "US" means those of us that produce, hire people, provide employment and pay taxes, both personal and business payroll tax from employing US citizens and legal immigrants. We have a medicare and Social Security system that would benefit from additional payments into it that are being avoided by hiring illegals. We have millions of workers going to work every day in unsafe conditions who may eventually end up in our hospitals with injuries we will pay for because, GUESS WHAT?????, no workamn's comp. insurance paid by their employer. We have millions of people going to work every day being paid less than the legal minimum wage, which means they have less to spend in an economy that needs spending, not to mention the fact that it could be US citizens and legal immigrants doing those jobs. And YES they WOULD do those jobs, Americans do all sorts of distasteful and difficult work...but they WIL NOT DO SO FOR $3 per hour, no benefits, no workman's comp., no insurance, no protection from harassment, no wage and hour restrictions, no overtime. It is insulting and downright ignorant to suggest illegals do work "Americans won't do" Horsesqueeze. Put those jobs on the market at the going wage with the usual benefits and Americans will line up for the jobs. Plenty of Americans work in Agriculture, construction, janitorial and restaraunt work. Vermont has a huge agricultrual industry and the lowest number of illegal immigrants of any state. Yet somehow all our cows get milked, all the manure gets spread, all the hay gets mowed and bailed, all the cheese gets made and all the syrup gets collected...and the workers make at lkeast $8.06 per hour and time and 1/2 for anything over 40 hours per week. PLUS they have health care provided by their employer OR the employer reimburses the state for it...ALL Vermonters have health care insurance and have had it for several years.

Immigration, border protection, national security ARE the most important roles for the federal government.

Though I have to admit, it could be humorous to watch a "debate" between two people so clueless of the role of our government.

[Cixelsyd 1]

Yes. It is a very pressing issue for the Federal government who seems to think they can play around in health care, the auto industry, bank bailouts, education etc., NONE of which are roles for the federal government in this country and ignore our borders and the fact that hundreds of thousands of employers thumb their nose at our federal laws and increase the financial burden on US. "US" means those of us that produce, hire people, provide employment and pay taxes, both personal and business payroll tax from employing US citizens and legal immigrants. We have a medicare and Social Security system that would benefit from additional payments into it that are being avoided by hiring illegals. We have millions of workers going to work every day in unsafe conditions who may eventually end up in our hospitals with injuries we will pay for because, GUESS WHAT?????, no workamn's comp. insurance paid by their employer. We have millions of people going to work every day being paid less than the legal minimum wage, which means they have less to spend in an economy that needs spending, not to mention the fact that it could be US citizens and legal immigrants doing those jobs. And YES they WOULD do those jobs, Americans do all sorts of distasteful and difficult work...but they WIL NOT DO SO FOR $3 per hour, no benefits, no workman's comp., no insurance, no protection from harassment, no wage and hour restrictions, no overtime. It is insulting and downright ignorant to suggest illegals do work "Americans won't do" Horsesqueeze. Put those jobs on the market at the going wage with the usual benefits and Americans will line up for the jobs. Plenty of Americans work in Agriculture, construction, janitorial and restaraunt work. Vermont has a huge agricultrual industry and the lowest number of illegal immigrants of any state. Yet somehow all our cows get milked, all the manure gets spread, all the hay gets mowed and bailed, all the cheese gets made and all the syrup gets collected...and the workers make at lkeast $8.06 per hour and time and 1/2 for anything over 40 hours per week. PLUS they have health care provided by their employer OR the employer reimburses the state for it...ALL Vermonters have health care insurance and have had it for several years.

Immigration, border protection, national security ARE the most important roles for the federal government.

Though I have to admit, it could be humorous to watch a "debate" between two people so clueless of the role of our government.

I'm still waiting for the punchline.

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

I'm still waiting for the punchline.

Of course you are.

[SMR 368]

ALL Vermonters have health care insurance and have had it for several years.

Are you sure Vermonters is correct and not Vermontians?

[Cixelsyd 1]

Of course you are.

I can see you're still mulling that one over. I'll give you a little more time.

[Brad and Vika 129]

Are you sure Vermonters is correct and not Vermontians?

Vermontites, clearly.

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

Are you sure Vermonters is correct and not Vermontians?

It is Vermonters if you are an angliphone. Vermontois (Vare-mon-twah) if you are a francophone.

[Brad and Vika 129]

It is Vermonters if you are an angliphone. Vermontois (Vare-mon-twah) if you are a francophone.

Or Vermontaters if you eat too much or talk too much.

[slim 1,533]

I thought the familiar term was "Green Mountain Boys."

[Brad and Vika 129]

I thought the familiar term was "Green Mountain Boys."

There you go

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

I thought the familiar term was "Green Mountain Boys."

Yep, they are the ones that train the 10th Mountain Division. No kidding. Th 10th Mountain is based in New York but trains on Mt Mansfield in Vermont.

Per capita, Vermont contributes more men, both alive and dead, to every war effort since WW2 than any other state. Our Guard unit is top rated and the Air Guard has been selected to receive the new F-35 fighters. Oh, and we make GD mini-guns and vulcan cannons right here in Burlington across the street from the Chocolate Factory. AND anyone can carry a concealed handgun without a permit. Not bad for a "liberal state", eh?

[slim 1,533]

That's liberal without the "progressive" part attached.

While it may be respectable to be a Green Mountain "Boy" I heard the women are called "chipmunks." Not so nice, eh?

[visaveteran 0]

Yep, they are the ones that train the 10th Mountain Division. No kidding. Th 10th Mountain is based in New York but trains on Mt Mansfield in Vermont.

Per capita, Vermont contributes more men, both alive and dead, to every war effort since WW2 than any other state. Our Guard unit is top rated and the Air Guard has been selected to receive the new F-35 fighters. Oh, and we make GD mini-guns and vulcan cannons right here in Burlington across the street from the Chocolate Factory. AND anyone can carry a concealed handgun without a permit. Not bad for a "liberal state", eh?

Aren't you the ones who gave us Howard Dean? You need to make a lot of mini guns to make up for that guy.