But we don't want health insurance!

[Dogwood_Poet 16]

My quick two cents. Some friends of mine who make above the poverty level but below 'average' were told when they had their first baby it would have been better if they did not have insurance.

They looked at maternity insurance, but it was over $300 a month so they decided to save and pay cash for the birth. When they went to the business office to pay the bill they said they would have been better off not to have any health insurance (he has insurance w/work) they would have given them a better discount on the bill.

Having a list of prices for the level of insurance you have seems to be another part of the problem!

I know I have gotten bills from the hospital for a procedure and then the insurance sends me a statement where they paid about 33% of what the hospital billed.

[Dan J 277]

This is sort of an ironic position for conservatives.

In healthcare, more often then not, the only other choice to not getting health care is to die. Most conservatives do not find that people have a right to choose to die. Thus a person should not be allowed to make that choice.

What makes health different from other insurable risks, is that at some point everyone will end up in a hospital, or doctors office (Unless we decide to get rid of the whole emergency care system). Also, if you loose your house you can replace it, if you loose your life you are SOL.

We provide services like emergency medical care. Those services are not free, and if the customer cannot afford it, it is paid by all the other hospital customers. So in declining medical insurance, it should be expected that services like emergency medical care is also not available, unless you can paid for up front (Since you are not insured, please provide a credit card number before we will send an ambulance out to your location). That way if you decline to be part of the risk pool, the risk pool doesn't pay for use of emergency services by the uninsured.

[rika60607 215]

By your own logic you have no rights at all. You must be also against police and army, as obviously, you would not want to mandate them to protect you. So, you are an anarchist. Good for you.

You really do fail in this logic here. A "right" cannot, nor ever be something that entails madating another to do something for another. That's absurd.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

By your own logic you have no rights at all. You must be also against police and army, as obviously, you would not want to mandate them to protect you. So, you are an anarchist. Good for you.

The army signs a willing contract. The police have an employment agreement (and sometimes a contract) that they willingly sign. They are also "employees" more than they are individuals as well when working for their respective agencies... It's a bit different than an individual doctor.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

My quick two cents. Some friends of mine who make above the poverty level but below 'average' were told when they had their first baby it would have been better if they did not have insurance.

They looked at maternity insurance, but it was over $300 a month so they decided to save and pay cash for the birth. When they went to the business office to pay the bill they said they would have been better off not to have any health insurance (he has insurance w/work) they would have given them a better discount on the bill.

Having a list of prices for the level of insurance you have seems to be another part of the problem!

I know I have gotten bills from the hospital for a procedure and then the insurance sends me a statement where they paid about 33% of what the hospital billed.

That's because insurance companies have negotiated rates with hospitals/doctors. It's the ones who pay cash who make up for the ones who bleed the system...

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I've received discounts on medical costs by paying cash, just as I have done by paying cash for a car or real estate. Why would this not be so? It cuts admin costs and creates an incentive for the provider who doesn't have to deal with third parties.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

I've received discounts on medical costs by paying cash, just as I have done by paying cash for a car or real estate. Why would this not be so? It cuts admin costs and creates an incentive for the provider who doesn't have to deal with third parties.

at a private or co-practice? OR at a hospital?

A private practice will usually give discounts to cash customers.. They are becoming harder and harder to find now days though :/

[mawilson 2,133]

"Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

That was only true when the tired, poor, wretched and homeless were all Irish and Eyetalian.

Now that they're Mexican, we only want the well-educated who have their own health insurance and can buy into brand new suburban subdivisions within a few years of arrival.

Oh please. The tired, poor, wretched and homeless Irish and Italians

didn't have Medicare or Medicaid when they arrived here. They didn't

have Social Security or unemployment benefits to help them out. They

actually worked for their money and made something of themselves.

Edited April 22, 2010 by mawilson

[mawilson 2,133]

I suppose there exists a theoretical asset level at which insurance is no longer necessary. Obviously that level would increase with the cost of healthcare in the region. You'd have to really do some actuarial analysis to determine where the cutoff lies, but my guess is that only a handful of people could ever reach that level.

I'm sure that the hospital with the oncology wing financed by Anschutz has its own stop-loss insurance.

I believe that not having insurance is a political rather than a fiscal decision.

Health insurance is a bet against yourself. The only type of insurance you really

need is catastrophic insurance - everything else is a waste of money.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Here in the Denver area, we have a fine university system that I patronize. My cash is welcome there, discounts included.

Oh please. The tired, poor, wretched and homeless Irish and Italians

didn't have Medicare or Medicaid when they arrived here. They didn't

have Social Security or unemployment benefits to help them out. They

actually worked for their money and made something of themselves.

They weren't White back then either.

Edited April 22, 2010 by Sofiyya

[SMOKE 1,426]

Health insurance is a bet against yourself. The only type of insurance you really

need is catastrophic insurance - everything else is a waste of money.

idk. my wife recently got a blue cross policy that covers dental too.(2 months ago) we've paid $153 premium 2 times ($1000 deductible is in a savings account)& they've paid out $650 in benefits so far.

yes, i've already locked in a competitive policy quote w/ assurant & united for when they drop her.

[Peikko 1,575]

Health insurance is a bet against yourself. The only type of insurance you really

need is catastrophic insurance - everything else is a waste of money.

Well, if you are lucky enough to be born with excellent health, vision and strong dental enamal, sure. Many people however are born with chronic conditions, have poor eye sight and poor teeth. Most people are not sick because they can't work out how to be healthy, that's another crock of ###### like poor people are lazy slackers. Insurance is not a great way to pay for health care, but for most people it is the only viable option. What's your alternative for moderate income people who have a child with a severe or chronic illness, euthanasia? Abortion?

Edited April 22, 2010 by Madame Cleo

[Ali G. 37]

Well, if you are lucky enough to be born with excellent health, vision and strong dental enamal, sure. Many people however are born with chronic conditions, have poor eye sight and poor teeth. Most people are not sick because they can't work out how to be healthy, that's another crock of ###### like poor people are lazy slackers. Insurance is not a great way to pay for health care, but for most people it is the only viable option. What's your alternative for how people who have a child with a severe or chronic illness, euthanasia? Abortion?

You actually think this guy cares about anyone else apart from himself. Like a teenager, the guy obviously gets a kick out of saying these things and watching people's reactions.

Edited April 22, 2010 by Ali G.

[Peikko 1,575]

Dental care costs are really pricey but they are in the UK too, and actually the care I have had here has been absolutely excellent, but then for some reason my dentist likes me.

[mawilson 2,133]

Well, if you are lucky enough to be born with excellent health, vision and strong dental enamal, sure. Many people however are born with chronic conditions, have poor eye sight and poor teeth. Most people are not sick because they can't work out how to be healthy, that's another crock of ###### like poor people are lazy slackers. Insurance is not a great way to pay for health care, but for most people it is the only viable option. What's your alternative for moderate income people who have a child with a severe or chronic illness, euthanasia? Abortion?

The insurance model doesn't work well for routine care. I doubt it'll save

you money if you have a chronic illness - the money given to the insurance

company would be better spent treating your illness. If the insurance company

didn't think they could ultimately get more money out of you than the cost

of your benefits, why would they keep you as a customer? (Yeah, yeah, they

may be required by law to do so NOW, but they certainly weren't before.)

How many people get more out of their insurance company than what they paid

in premiums (including the "hidden" part of the premium paid for by their

employer)? The answer is "not many", otherwise the insurance companies

would be out of business.

Not to mention that many people have "high deductible" plans where the

the insurance doesn't even kick in until you've paid a certain amount

(which kind of defeats the purpose of having insurance in the first place.)

The purpose of insurance is to insure that you'll survive financially due

to an unforeseen event. If you have a ton of money, insurance on smaller

things is a lot less important.