Arizona Bill Cracks Down on Illegal Immigration

[Fandango 1,439]

Anybody, citizen or not, is required to carry ID with them. So if you are pulled over in your State and the cop ask for your ID, you're fine. If you happen to look like a possible illegal immigrant, the cop will ask you: "are you a US citizen?"

If you confirm, you're fine. He won't detain you because you have brown skin, but because you didn't carry an ID with you.

If a non-citizen claims to be a USC, he's done. If he says he's a LPR, he has to prove it.

What's so bad with that picture?

Shocked that's your take on it!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Nice try but never said that. What I said is that if someone is questioned with probable cause, the police should reserve the right to ask for their status. Much in the same way if someone smells of alcohol, they can conduct a sobriety test. Not speaking English or having a foreign accent could warrant this simple check too.

Nevertheless, if you are so worried about discrimination, then by default everyone questioned by the police should have to show an ID card. Can't wait to hear the excuse for this one.

So BY, after saying that you are not saying that "Sounding foreign" and being overheard speaking a different language now amounts to due cause for stop and search you are now saying that "Sounding foreign" and being overheard speaking a different language now amounts to due cause for stop and search.

You are so deluded that you will deny that you said what you claim you are not saying. Feel free to clear up the logical paradox here - What exactly are you or are you not saying?

[Peikko 1,575]

The police can conduct a sobriety test of anyone regardless of whether they are driving a vehicle or not?

The point is that when those in authority are acting properly and not targeting by any criteria than unlawful activity, then clearly a system of identification is not abusive but requiring everyone to carry a form of identity and giving those in authority the power to arrest anyone who is on the streets without said identity card on them is rife for abuse. Not to mention that if Obama is the next Hitler, advocating such an easy way to target those people he does not like (hey tea party people, wave ya'll) seems somewhat surprising if you ask me.

[Ali G. 37]

So BY, after saying that you are not saying that "Sounding foreign" and being overheard speaking a different language now amounts to due cause for stop and search you are now saying that "Sounding foreign" and being overheard speaking a different language now amounts to due cause for stop and search.

You are so deluded that you will deny that you said what you claim you are not saying. Feel free to clear up the logical paradox here - What exactly are you or are you not saying?

I am not clearing anything up for you. You refuse to accept what I am actually saying and are trying to interject your own interpretation; that is, what you want me to say.

After nearly five years of attempts to discuss anything relating to illegal aliens, the same handful of people still use the same deflective arguments. 1. I am racist and bigoted. 2. I hate brown people. No matter what is posted, you will try to discredit it with one or both of these points. Then when you are caught out, yet again you will claim it's a case of me being boring or better yet whining.

If you have no interest in such discussion then why bother?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You said that if a policeman overhears someone not speaking English or speaking English with an accent that they should be allowed to stop them and demand that they produce ID.

How is that different from what I said you said?

[Ali G. 37]

The police can conduct a sobriety test of anyone regardless of whether they are driving a vehicle or not?

The point is that when those in authority are acting properly and not targeting by any criteria than unlawful activity, then clearly a system of identification is not abusive but requiring everyone to carry a form of identity and giving those in authority the power to arrest anyone who is on the streets without said identity card on them is rife for abuse. Not to mention that if Obama is the next Hitler, advocating such an easy way to target those people he does not like (hey tea party people, wave ya'll) seems somewhat surprising if you ask me.

Lets see if this final attempt of a logical discussion helps.

Scenario 1

I'm pulled over for speeding, the officer notices by my accent that I am a foreigner. The officer about to issue me a citation should have the right to ask for an ID card to prove my status.

Scenario 2

I am questioned by an officer for loitering at a 7/11, the officer speaks to me and notices by my accent that I am a foreigner. The officer about to issue me a citation should have the right to ask for an ID card to prove my status.

Scenario 3

I am questioned regarding a robbery, the officer notices by my accent that I am a foreigner. The officer interviewing me should have the right to ask for an ID card to prove my status.

Scenario 4

Arrested for DUI or being drunk in public, the officer notices by my accent that I am a foreigner. The officer about to issue me a citation should have the right to ask for an ID card to prove my status.

Scenario 5

I am walking down the street or sitting at a restaurant, yet my foreign accent is overheard. Nothing is done or asked of me as I have not broken any law.

Edited April 21, 2010 by Ali G.

[Peikko 1,575]

How does he 'notice' you are a foreigner? What has being 'noticeably foreign' got to do with being illegal?

[Peikko 1,575]

Either he should be required to ask everyone the same question, regardless of how they look sound, or he should be required to ask no one, and not having identification about one's person should never be the only requirement in order to be able to haul someone off to the cooler.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

BY and six ?

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Lets see if this final attempt of a logical discussion helps.

Scenario 1

I'm pulled over for speeding, the officer notices by my accent that I am a foreigner. The officer about to issue me a citation should have the right to ask for an ID card to prove my status.

Scenario 2

I am questioned by an officer for loitering at a 7/11, the officer speaks to me and notices by my accent that I am a foreigner. The officer about to issue me a citation should have the right to ask for an ID card to prove my status.

Scenario 3

I am questioned regarding a robbery, the officer notices by my accent that I am a foreigner. The officer interviewing me should have the right to ask for an ID card to prove my status.

Scenario 4

Arrested for DUI or being drunk in public, the officer notices by my accent that I am a foreigner. The officer about to issue me a citation should have the right to ask for an ID card to prove my status.

Scenario 5

I am walking down the street or sitting at a restaurant, yet my foreign accent is overheard. Nothing is done or asked of me as I have not broken any law.

Scenarios 1-3,5 sound like discrimination to me....and besides they are going to make their decision based on skin color and you know it. Scenario 4 should already be taken care of. In my community an ICE official checks the county jail almost daily to verify resident statuses of those arrested.

[Peikko 1,575]

I can see this being used to get indigent people off the streets as well, and you know who else didn't like indigents don't you?

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Regarding National ID, I have no problem with it if its basically your SS No. with a photo in a tamper proof setting....but.....I've heard lots of negative additions added to other countries versions from DNA info, fingerprints, retina scans, to even tying credit info to the card.

[Peikko 1,575]

I don't mind such a thing as long as I am not legally required to carry it at all times and that the penalty for failure to produce isn't mandatory incarceration.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

I can see this being used to get indigent people off the streets as well, and you know who else didn't like indigents don't you?

Actually I don't. Hitler?

[Ali G. 37]

How does he 'notice' you are a foreigner? What has being 'noticeably foreign' got to do with being illegal?

In a country where illegal aliens are a huge problem, you disagree with individuals stopped during routine police work, like when an individual is arrested for a DUI, having their status questioned because it 'may discriminate'. However, you also disagree with mandating everyone's status be checked during the normal course of police work; something that would eliminate the paranoia of discrimination.

Much like Pike, you guys use straw man arguments such as falsely claiming we advocate police randomly pull people over and check their status, particularly anyone of brown skin. Unfortunately you are wrong on all counts.