Why not leave her Thai passport with Thai name?

[thongd4me 69]

I believe this has been discussed before, but I just need to get the facts

from someone who has had the same experience.

Her Thai passport is not due for renewal until a few years from now.

She will be traveling with either an AP document or her 2-yr GC in her married name

this summer. Naturally the ticket will be in the name shown in her passport

while the AP document or GC will enable her re-entry to the US with her married name.

I understand she must also have a copy of her marriage certificate to show that she is the same person.

Question:

Has anyone who got a 10-year green card decided to keep their name on their foreign passport

unchanged while having the different married surname on the green card?

I don't see any advantages to her changing her hame in Thailand as they don't need to see the

green card to enter Thailand and she can show both to enter the US along with proof that she is

married. Various threats/rumors to disposess Thai citizens of real property when they marry

foreigners are the main reasons for wanting her to keep her Thai name in the passport.

I believe Japan, for example, doesn't require a name change even if the Japanese woman has

changed her name and has kids with the father's surname. The kids' Japanese passports will

have her maiden name as their surnames. The last time I looked at my kid's Japanese passports

there was no trace of my family name. Actually I think Japan doesn't ALLOW a name change if it's

citizens are to remain Japanese.

[Nik+Heather 121]

You know, I had always thought that my maiden name was going to always remain just as legal as my married name, but before answering I thought I might try google.

According to wikipedia, it's a state governed thing (if maiden name can be used any longer once married name is adopted), so naturally we have a confusing patchwork of rules. Isn't that great?

My read was that in most states you can use a name (any name) at will unless it is for fraudulent purposes, and the rule that you must use the new name exclusively is an exception.

I'm traveling in my maiden name this May for the same reason - my passport isn't expired yet, so I didn't see any reason to change it. However, since fees are going up I might update that as well a bit early. The difficulty there is that the airline miles clubs are a bit more annoying when it comes to changing your name - they are asking for more stuff than even my employer did! Hah!

[thongd4me 69]

You know, I had always thought that my maiden name was going to always remain just as legal as my married name, but before answering I thought I might try google.

According to wikipedia, it's a state governed thing (if maiden name can be used any longer once married name is adopted), so naturally we have a confusing patchwork of rules. Isn't that great?

My read was that in most states you can use a name (any name) at will unless it is for fraudulent purposes, and the rule that you must use the new name exclusively is an exception.

I'm traveling in my maiden name this May for the same reason - my passport isn't expired yet, so I didn't see any reason to change it. However, since fees are going up I might update that as well a bit early. The difficulty there is that the airline miles clubs are a bit more annoying when it comes to changing your name - they are asking for more stuff than even my employer did! Hah!

Thanks, Heather,

I see from your timeline you already have a 2 year green card but you don't plan to change your

name (on your passport) any time soon and you'll be travelling on your passport name.

For my wife, it is convenient for her to have her married name here (it identifies her as the

spouse of an American, because I have a European name) but also convenient to keep her

former name in Thailand (for family, friends and the government). The Thai name will be hard

for Americans to pronounce and the American name will get no recognition in Thailand.

I'm not too proud of myself to insist that she have my name there too,

I just would prefer for her to do what is practical for her and her family.

[rsn 135]

Question:

Has anyone who got a 10-year green card decided to keep their name on their foreign passport

unchanged while having the different married surname on the green card?

I'm not sure why a 10 year green card differs from a 2 year in this case, but my wife did not change her name on her passport and does not have any plans to change it either until it expires. We have traveled internationally with her GC & our marriage cert w/out a problem. Definitely carry a copy of your marriage cert.

[thongd4me 69]

I'm not sure why a 10 year green card differs from a 2 year in this case, but my wife did not change her name on her passport and does not have any plans to change it either until it expires. We have traveled internationally with her GC & our marriage cert w/out a problem. Definitely carry a copy of your marriage cert.

Yes, that's the definite confirmation I was looking for.

I'm also guessing that she has no plans to change

her family name when she renews her passport,

even though she has changed it to yours in the US.

My wife is concerned that she may be forced to change

her name in Thailand and I don't think she should worry

about that.

To take it to the citizenship level:

I believe the fact that the US does not recognize dual nationality

does not prevent people from maintaining other valid passports.

I believe the Thai authorities don't care if a Thai citizen has also

become an American, because the duties & obligations of a Thai

citizen only take place in Thailand.

My wife has no immediate plans to become a US citizen and if

she does that will be her decision alone & I won't push her one

way or the other. I'll be wary of the drawbacks of US citizenship.

Even if she is ony a permanent resident, she will have the right

to receive social security, so I don't see the overriding advantage

of changing citizenship.

What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.

[rin and john 71]

My wife has no immediate plans to become a US citizen and if

she does that will be her decision alone & I won't push her one

way or the other. I'll be wary of the drawbacks of US citizenship.

Even if she is ony a permanent resident, she will have the right

to receive social security, so I don't see the overriding advantage

of changing citizenship.

True, if she remains in the USA. If she moves back to Thailand before establishing five years of US residency, I don't believe she would qualify for SS benefits. If she does stay five years and then moves back to Thailand, she can draw social security, but if she lost PR status, and subsequently returned to the USA, she would not be eligible for medicare. As a returning USC, she would.

In our case, Rin will apply for US citizenship, as we plan to retire in Thailand. However, we will travel frequently to the US (since in all likelihood her children will finish university here and not want to move to Thailand after 15+ years in the USA). She may very well want to move back to the USA if I die first, to be close to children/grandchildren. Therefore, US citizenship makes alot of sense for her.

[thongd4me 69]

True, if she remains in the USA. If she moves back to Thailand before establishing five years of US residency, I don't believe she would qualify for SS benefits. If she does stay five years and then moves back to Thailand, she can draw social security, but if she lost PR status, and subsequently returned to the USA, she would not be eligible for medicare. As a returning USC, she would.

In our case, Rin will apply for US citizenship, as we plan to retire in Thailand. However, we will travel frequently to the US (since in all likelihood her children will finish university here and not want to move to Thailand after 15+ years in the USA). She may very well want to move back to the USA if I die first, to be close to children/grandchildren. Therefore, US citizenship makes alot of sense for her.

We will cross each bridge as we come to it. She has enough real estate in Thailand that it would be a pity to lose,

but she would be able to transfer it to her adult son who just got a job with Nestle. He may or may not think the

US is an attractive place to live & work, but I'm sure at some point in his life he may have the opportunity to work

here as he is very employable with a degree from Chulalonkorn. If he decides to settle here & get citizenship then

she'll have to decide on that basis. Since I am near retirement and she could possibly work here for at least 10

more years, she should get the SS entitlement before we start thinking about living in Thailand for a longer period.

Ultimately once we are both retired I think we could spend 6 months in each country, to maintain medicare eligibility

for both. In any case we may want to give that up and rely on the Thai medical system which is already good.

US citizenship for Rin as you are both young sounds like a good plan. Have you ever heard of anyone keeping

their Thai citizenship after adopting US citizenship? The US doesn't recognize dual nationality but then I don't

think that means US nationality must force the other country to deny their citizens passport renewal.

I understand the standard procedure is to go to the foreign consulate and surrender the passport voluntarily,

but what are the penalties for not doing that? I don't think there are any. Arnold Schwarzenegger, for example,

still retains his Austrian nationality even though is a US governor.

Dual Nationality

"U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another.

Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship."

That may also be something to consider.

The trade-off naturally is in economic terms. The US is one of the few countries in the world that tax their citizens

punitively no matter where they live and gain their income. On the other hand, there are benefits (Social Security

& Medicare) to having US citizenship. We will have to weigh those when the time comes but avoid breaking any

laws in either country. I think the good news is that Thailand probably won't require her to change her name if

she doesn't request it.

Having to travel with our marriage certificate will be the price to pay if she doesn't get US citizenship,

but I would be reluctant to force her to give up her Thai citizenship if she does opt for US citizenship.

Edited April 22, 2010 by thongd4me

[TheBears 9]

US citizenship for Rin as you are both young sounds like a good plan. Have you ever heard of anyone keeping

their Thai citizenship after adopting US citizenship? The US doesn't recognize dual nationality but then I don't

think that means US nationality must force the other country to deny their citizens passport renewal.

I understand the standard procedure is to go to the foreign consulate and surrender the passport voluntarily,

but what are the penalties for not doing that? I don't think there are any. Arnold Schwarzenegger, for example,

still retains his Austrian nationality even though is a US governor.

Hello! Please don't mind my intrusion.

My ex's mother and father are from Thailand. Bord. Raised. Graduated. Moved here in their own ways. Met here and raised their family here. They both have US citizenship by now. They both retain their Thai citizenship. They both keep two passports.

Because of them, my ex has Thai citizenship even though he was born here in the US. Because of my ex, my son also has Thai citizenship. My ex has a Thai passport and birth certificate issued by the Thai Embassy in DC. We are in the process of obtaining the same for my son. On the forms to fill out for the birth certificate, there is a place saying "I am a Thai citizen and do not hold any other nationalities." We asked the Embassy and they said that even though the ex-in-laws had nationalized, this statement was still true according to their laws and it would not be a problem for my ex-FIL to sign. In the same way, it wasn't a problem for my ex to sign, either.

I've never heard anything about my ex-in-laws having problems, either here or in Thailand, regarding their passports or citizenship status. They have flown back to Thailand several times in the 30+ years they have lived here. I assume they present Thai passports when entering Thailand and US passports when entering the US, but I'm not certain. I can ask, though.

[thongd4me 69]

Hello! Please don't mind my intrusion.

My ex's mother and father are from Thailand. Bord. Raised. Graduated. Moved here in their own ways. Met here and raised their family here. They both have US citizenship by now. They both retain their Thai citizenship. They both keep two passports.

Because of them, my ex has Thai citizenship even though he was born here in the US. Because of my ex, my son also has Thai citizenship. My ex has a Thai passport and birth certificate issued by the Thai Embassy in DC. We are in the process of obtaining the same for my son. On the forms to fill out for the birth certificate, there is a place saying "I am a Thai citizen and do not hold any other nationalities." We asked the Embassy and they said that even though the ex-in-laws had nationalized, this statement was still true according to their laws and it would not be a problem for my ex-FIL to sign. In the same way, it wasn't a problem for my ex to sign, either.

I've never heard anything about my ex-in-laws having problems, either here or in Thailand, regarding their passports or citizenship status. They have flown back to Thailand several times in the 30+ years they have lived here. I assume they present Thai passports when entering Thailand and US passports when entering the US, but I'm not certain. I can ask, though.

Not intrusion at all, this was the kind of response I was anticipating thereby indicating a confirmation of

my research on dual US-Thai nationality.

Korp Khun Krap!

On a more somber note, sorry things didn't work out with your

Thai spouse. Hope you've succeeded in happily moving on as I have

after a failed marriage.

Edited April 22, 2010 by thongd4me

[thongd4me 69]

Side note: my Japanese ex wife has a 10 year green card and always

presents Japanese passports in Japan (kids also have them) and the US

passports here. Customs officers in any country never need to see other

passports if the passport of their country is presented.

[TheBears 9]

Not intrusion at all, this was the kind of response I was anticipating thereby indicating a confirmation of

my research on dual US-Thai nationality.

Korp Khun Krap!

On a more somber note, sorry things didn't work out with your

Thai spouse. Hope you've succeeded in happily moving on as I have

after a failed marriage.

Mai pen rai kha. I know it's difficult to find solid information about dual Thai/American status in English. Have you thought about going for Thai citizenship as well?

Thank you. No need to be sorry, though. The ex and I are actually much better now than we were when we were married. It's funny how life works out. I'm happy you've been able to move on, as well, and hope your life continues to bring you happiness and prosperity.

[thongd4me 69]

Mai pen rai kha. I know it's difficult to find solid information about dual Thai/American status in English. Have you thought about going for Thai citizenship as well?

Thank you. No need to be sorry, though. The ex and I are actually much better now than we were when we were married. It's funny how life works out. I'm happy you've been able to move on, as well, and hope your life continues to bring you happiness and prosperity.

Thai citizenship would require me going into a deep ZEN state and finally knuckling down and learning Thai.

I don't know if the fact that my wife is a professional Thai teacher will help because my brain cells are so old.

It would have to be a 24/7 project to tackle once I'm retired. I have less than 2 years to go and things will

be too stressful until that time for language learning.

Mike Ditka says thanks

[muk&jeff 0]

So I found this and I hope this helps. My wife keeps on get harassed since her 10yr gc has my last name on it and her thai passport has her maiden name on it. Immigration officer says she needs to change her thai passport since it has her maiden name on it. I think it shouldn't matter since the 10 yr gc is the only think she needs. I pulled the link from uscis. (

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=0c353a4107083210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=0c353a4107083210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD

International Travel as a Permanent Resident

What do I need to travel outside the United States?

A permanent resident (green card holder) can travel freely outside of the United States. A passport from your country of citizenship or your refugee travel document is often necessary to travel to another country and to reenter the United States. Also, the country you are visiting may have additional entry requirements (such as a visa).

What do I need to reenter the United States?

To reenter the United States, a permanent resident normally needs to present their green card for readmission. A reentry permit is needed for trips that last longer than 1 year but less than 2 years. For more information, see the”Travel Documents” link to the left under “Green Card Processes & Procedures.”

What if my trip will last longer than 2 years?

If you remain outside of the United States for more than 2 years after issuance of a reentry permit without obtaining a returning resident visa, you may be considered to have abandoned your permanent resident status. However, in determining whether your status has been abandoned, any length of absence from the United States may be considered, even if less than 1 year.

[thongd4me 69]

So I found this and I hope this helps. My wife keeps on get harassed since her 10yr gc has my last name on it and her thai passport has her maiden name on it. Immigration officer says she needs to change her thai passport since it has her maiden name on it. I think it shouldn't matter since the 10 yr gc is the only think she needs. I pulled the link from uscis. (

http://www.uscis.gov...000082ca60aRCRD

International Travel as a Permanent Resident

What do I need to travel outside the United States?

A permanent resident (green card holder) can travel freely outside of the United States. A passport from your country of citizenship or your refugee travel document is often necessary to travel to another country and to reenter the United States. Also, the country you are visiting may have additional entry requirements (such as a visa).

What do I need to reenter the United States?

To reenter the United States, a permanent resident normally needs to present their green card for readmission. A reentry permit is needed for trips that last longer than 1 year but less than 2 years. For more information, see the"Travel Documents" link to the left under "Green Card Processes & Procedures."

What if my trip will last longer than 2 years?

If you remain outside of the United States for more than 2 years after issuance of a reentry permit without obtaining a returning resident visa, you may be considered to have abandoned your permanent resident status. However, in determining whether your status has been abandoned, any length of absence from the United States may be considered, even if less than 1 year.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/252599-why-not-leave-her-thai-passport-with-thai-name/page__view__findpost__p__3882035

I would go with the answer of someone who has more experience than I, and "RSN" says

passport, greencard & marriage certificate. I'm a little confused by your post regarding the

"harassment" because if they let her pass then she had sufficient documentation. The USCIS

says that the greencard is enough documentation for her re-entry after a less than 1 year visit

but they may assume that the native passport name has been changed. That's why the marriage

certificate is necessary (it has the maiden name of the wife and indicates the name change).

[thongd4me 69]

http://www.visajourn...ost__p__3882035

I would go with the answer of someone who has more experience than I, and "RSN" says

passport, greencard & marriage certificate. I'm a little confused by your post regarding the

"harassment" because if they let her pass then she had sufficient documentation. The USCIS

says that the greencard is enough documentation for her re-entry after a less than 1 year visit

but they may assume that the native passport name has been changed. That's why the marriage

certificate is necessary (it has the maiden name of the wife and indicates the name change).

In my view, the name change on the Thai passport would be for the

convenience of the US immigration officials only and not a requirement.

Changing her name however has many drawbacks on the Thailand side,

and that is why I am telling my wife to keep her Thai name when it

comes up for renewal. My wife owns real estate there and we don't

want to be affected by any possible future law that would disown

a Thai citizen who marries a foreigner. Farang can't legally own

real property in Thailand and if a Thai that is married to a farang

has changed their name they look at any purchase of real property

much more critically. On the Thai side they don't care if a Thai

citizen has a green card or not but they do raise eyebrows when

a Thai has a farang name on a Thai passport.