Collecting Evidence

[trillium13 84]

Hey all!

We are a ways away from ROC (about 9 months) but I'm starting to look into what we will need.

I see that some people are sending a copy of every month of every bill they share together. This seems like a lot to me, and brings up some further questions.

All the utilities in the apartment are in my name. (electric, phone, internet) They won't allow 2 names.

Also, we do all of our billing online for everything. We don't get paper statements. What do I do about this? I mean I can probably print something off that shows both of our names, but do I really need to figure out a way to do this for each and every month we've been together?

I guess I had originally thought I could just send evidence of what we have at the time of filing, but it looks like most people are sending a lot of stuff. So if I need to collect more as we go on, I need to know, 'cause now I'm confused.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

You have to show that your marriage is a real one, covering the 3 cornerstones:

1) Taxes

2) Finances

3) Living

Send a cover letter, telling in one paragraph who you guys are (still living in my old apartment) and what you enclose with your petition. Remember you BOTH write and sign it!

1) is covered by tax returns.

2) is covered by a letter of your bank (To whom it may concern), stating your accounts and access to those by both of you (that's what I did; no joint bank account, not one statement enclosed!),

3) is covered by photos showing you together, by AAA cards, auto insurance policy, car title(s), etc.

Getting approved is really just a formality for a real couple without real issues.

Quality beats quantity any day.

Edited April 18, 2010 by Just Bob

[OBX 51]

You have to show that your marriage is a real one, covering the 3 cornerstones:

1) Taxes

2) Finances

3) Living

Send a cover letter, telling in one paragraph who you guys are (still living in my old apartment) and what you enclose with your petition. Remember you BOTH write and sign it!

1) is covered by tax returns.

2) is covered by a letter of your bank (To whom it may concern), stating your accounts and access to those by both of you (that's what I did; no joint bank account, not one statement enclosed!),

3) is covered by photos showing you together, by AAA cards, auto insurance policy, car title(s), etc.

Getting approved is really just a formality for a real couple without real issues.

Quality beats quantity any day.

We are beginning to organize for next spring as well.

#1 and #3 are covered but have no joint banking...any suggestions?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

We are beginning to organize for next spring as well.

#1 and #3 are covered but have no joint banking...any suggestions?

You need some evidence of the "co-mingling of assets". You have to show that both husband and wife have access to each other's funds, properties, and investments. A joint installment agreement, the joint ownership of a vehicle, or a joint bank account, are good evidence. The key word is, "joint".

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

We are beginning to organize for next spring as well.

#1 and #3 are covered but have no joint banking...any suggestions?

Our house I got many years before I met my wife. It's in my name and so are all utilities. My wife and I have several bank accounts (business accounts and personal ones) so we really didn't feel like adding another one just for the Schmacks from Uncle Sam's Immigration Department. So we went to our bank, to an Assistant Manager, to be precise, and she gave us the following letter:

To whom it May Concern:

This is to certify that Mr. Bob and Mrs. Doe (we have different names), hold the following accounts:

1)Checking #123456 . . . Balance $12,345.67

2)Checking #234567 . . . Balance $23,456.78

3)Money Market #345678 . . . Balance $34,567.89

4)CD #456789 . . . Balance $45,678.90

Both, Mr. Bob and Mrs. Doe have full and unrestricted access to any of the above accounts

Date

Signature

Stamp

We did not specify which account is in whose name. No need for that. The key is the access. If one has a fake marriage, they surely would not want the fake spouse to clean out their accounts.

Worked like a charm, and you don't even have to tell the bank employee for what purpose you need the letter (we didn't.)

[Darnell 8,479]

ya, IMO, ROC is all about co-mingling of finances and co-habitation (same domicile).

Talk to the utility companies again - have them change the STATEMENTS to show both names.

REDO the lease, or have addendum made.

revisit all joint bank accounts, as well.

if any financial instruments/life insurance policies - rework the POD instructions for the foreign spouse.

re: no paper statements - each entity has a billing statement, available online to print or download. Get it, print it.

Good Luck !

Edited April 19, 2010 by Darnell

[Weatherman 0]

Hi,

We are in much the same situation, all the utilities are in my name only, and we bank online. We do jointly own our condo with all the appropriate documentation and we bought a car together showing both names on the contract and insurance, registration, etc. A lease or landlord statement or even family member affidavit of your living situation would be just as effective if you do not own or even rent, IMO. I plan to get around the utility difficulty by discussing it in a paragraph of the cover letter. I'm also highlighting on the copies of our joint bank account statements our employers' Direct Deposits for both of us into the joint bank account, as well as the outgoing payments to the utilities and one copy each of cleared automatic generated checks for the condo fee and car payment. I did change my mind and am including a sample of 3 months over the 21 month period of the bank statement. Bob is right, quality over quantity. Tell the IO in your cover letter what is in your package and why it is there. I chose to highlight names, addresses, and account numbers on each document to ease the IO's burden and lead his or her eyes where i want them to look. I also annotated husband's pay, wife's pay, and the various utility bills in the margin next to the various highlighted entries of our bank statements. Bear in mind I have not submitted the package yet and therefore can not comment as to the success of my method, but I've spent the day preparing it as I have described. Its gonna be fine.

I don't plan to include any affidavits or pictures because we can show with tax transcripts, property and auto ownership documents, and the bank account info that we are financially comingled and happily cohabitating. I'm including drivers licenses showing same addresses and medical/ dental coverage and billings, and various official correspondence addressed to my wife as secondary supporting evidence.

Call me crazy, but I'd enjoy being interviewed just to see what its like. I'm sure my wife would not though, LOL. We are happily married and have nothing to be afraid of or hide. FDR said "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself". I agree in this instance.

After convincing the consular Visa interviewer at the Embassy in Manila that she had made a mistake and getting her to over turn herself 10 days after her original denial and rejection of my wife's immigrant Visa application, I'm not sweating the removal of conditions process. Not even a little bit at all. I spent a couple hundred bucks talking to an immigration lawyer, disregarded her advice, spent a frantic week digging into the US immigration code, flew to Manila, and basically walked into the Embassy unannounced with no appointment with my wife, gently demanded to be seen, and got a second interview on the spot. "You seem to have done your homework" she said when I hit her with the downloaded US code showing her she was wrong. Uhhhh, yeah. She approved my wife's Visa that day. I'm not recommending this course of action, LOL. The point of my rant is that if you are legit, there is no need to sweat the load. You'll be fine, just take your time, meet your deadlines, and include good quality evidence demonstrating Bob's 3 pillars. Good Luck.

Thanks to the forum members and VJ community for providing the lighted path.

[Yurika & Jim 77]

FYI, I didn't send any utility bills or affidavits and even bank statement(!) and got approved.

I send some pictures (just 9 pictures on 1 sheet) though...

Tax returns, property ownership documents, car insurance, health insurance...

Just a minimum of evidences, 20 pages total in envelope.

[OBX 51]

You need some evidence of the You have to show that both husband and wife have access to each other's funds, properties, and investments. A joint installment agreement, the joint ownership of a vehicle, or a joint bank account, are good evidence. The key word is, "joint".

Thanks for all of the suggestions

We do have one joint credit card ( I am actually just a secondary card holder on his account), I am covered by his health insurance and our auto and home insurance policies are in both our names (although we each own our cars separately.)

While I understand that "co-mingling of assets" is required I really don't see the justification for it. In our case, this our second marriage, both of us entering with our own assets and we have kept everything separate. We each have older children from our first marriages and they are the beneficiaries of our assets and any insurance policies. My husband owned his home prior to me moving here, all utilities are in his name. I'm just wondering why USCIS requires we have to co-mingle finances to prove we are in a bona fide marriage. Why should it be a requirement that I put my husband on a joint investment account that I have built up over 30 years and vice versa. Just wondering.

Edited April 19, 2010 by OBX

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Thanks for all of the suggestions

We do have one joint credit card ( I am actually just a secondary card holder on his account), I am covered by his health insurance and our auto and home insurance policies are in both our names (although we each own our cars separately.)

While I understand that "co-mingling of assets" is required I really don't see the justification for it. In our case, this our second marriage, both of us entering with our own assets and we have kept everything separate. We each have older children from our first marriages and they are the beneficiaries of our assets and any insurance policies. My husband owned his home prior to me moving here, all utilities are in his name. I'm just wondering why USCIS requires we have to co-mingle finances to prove we are in a bona fide marriage. Why should it be a requirement that I put my husband on a joint investment account that I have built up over 30 years and vice versa. Just wondering.

The "keeping everything separate" may get you in trouble. As a matter of fact, in many states with community property rules, "keeping everything separate" probably won't stop one spouse from cleaning out the other spouse's assets, without an affirmative document stating so, agreed to by both parties. (Prenuptial agreement, for example.)

Acknowledging that fact, goes a long way in demonstrating the trust necessary for a marriage to be valid, not just a mutually beneficial relationship long enough for the immigration spouse to obtain LPR status. (Fraud)

[OBX 51]

The "keeping everything separate" may get you in trouble. As a matter of fact, in many states with community property rules, "keeping everything separate" probably won't stop one spouse from cleaning out the other spouse's assets, without an affirmative document stating so, agreed to by both parties. (Prenuptial agreement, for example.)

Acknowledging that fact, goes a long way in demonstrating the trust necessary for a marriage to be valid, not just a mutually beneficial relationship long enough for the immigration spouse to obtain LPR status. (Fraud)

I will have to disagree that allowing each other access to accounts built up prior to marriage indicates "the trust necessary for a marriage to be valid." While I understand that USCIS needs tangible evidence to base their decisions on, and co-mingling of finances is one way to show that, I still can't get my head around the premise that it is the only way to show the marriage is valid.

I guess I'll see what they think of my evidence in about 11 months. Thanks for your input.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

OBX (is that a short form for Oberlix?)

At the ROC stage, the USCIS folks want to know if your marriage is still healthy and if you guys still live together. You confirm both questions in the positive by filing the I-751 jointly with your spouse.

If you can give them some supporting documents to that effect. you'll be fine. Some people don't file taxes together, some people (like me) don't have a joint mortgage or rent, some people (like me, again) don't have a joint account, others do not allow their spouse full access to their walk-in safe, others again have other, personal quirks.

There are many ways to skin a child, and USCIS allows petitioners to provide whatever evidence they see fit to support their case. I don't see any problems in your approach. Generally speaking, it's pretty much impossible not to get approved, as long as the marriage is real.

[OBX 51]

OBX (is that a short form for Oberlix?)

At the ROC stage, the USCIS folks want to know if your marriage is still healthy and if you guys still live together. You confirm both questions in the positive by filing the I-751 jointly with your spouse.

If you can give them some supporting documents to that effect. you'll be fine. Some people don't file taxes together, some people (like me) don't have a joint mortgage or rent, some people (like me, again) don't have a joint account, others do not allow their spouse full access to their walk-in safe, others again have other, personal quirks.

There are many ways to skin a child, and USCIS allows petitioners to provide whatever evidence they see fit to support their case. I don't see any problems in your approach. Generally speaking, it's pretty much impossible not to get approved, as long as the marriage is real.

Thanks Bob

That is the approach I'm taking. Despite only being married since 2008 we have known each other since '81 (Yikes that is aging me ) I have no desire to have it drawn out to the interview stage, however, if it got to that point I don't think there is anything I could be asked that I wouldn't know the answer to at this point.

BTW OBX refers to the Outer Banks area of North Carolina; our summer vacation spot and where we were married

Edited April 20, 2010 by OBX

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

I will have to disagree that allowing each other access to accounts built up prior to marriage indicates "the trust necessary for a marriage to be valid." While I understand that USCIS needs tangible evidence to base their decisions on, and co-mingling of finances is one way to show that, I still can't get my head around the premise that it is the only way to show the marriage is valid.

I guess I'll see what they think of my evidence in about 11 months. Thanks for your input.

Hey, I sweated not showing anything on the house, since it is still in my name, "a single man", and the mortgage will be paid off this year, so I didn't want anything to screw with that. And, we just got her card, no problem. So, yeah, as long as you don't fall into the 20% that get extra scrutiny, you will probably sail through, (unless you file at VSC).

[OBX 51]

Hey, I sweated not showing anything on the house, since it is still in my name, "a single man", and the mortgage will be paid off this year, so I didn't want anything to screw with that. And, we just got her card, no problem. So, yeah, as long as you don't fall into the 20% that get extra scrutiny, you will probably sail through, (unless you file at VSC).

Thanks ...I'm feeling a bit better about it .....wait a sec...we will be filing at VSC...dang!!!

Edited April 20, 2010 by OBX