Additional Documentation

[Terry1 0]

My wife was interviewed at the HCM City Embassy in October. She was asked to bring more documentation regarding the relationship to her son who would be coming to the U.S. with her. They wanted to validate the relationship of the son to her vs. the relationship with the father, her ex-husband. When she took the additional documentation as requested in November, they said it needed further processing. We have not had a decision yet so she wants to send even more documentation now...more pics etc. Will this help or will the file be pulled to add the information and the put back at the bottom of the stack? Thanks.

[Bernie C 24]

Typically I thought what was required in a case like this is proof of immediate relative relationship (that is legal proof such as a birth certificate).

In addition some document from the father of the child that shows he is permitting the child to immigrate is required.

I dont think that pictures and proof of social relationship is what they are looking for.

I may be totally off base here. Do you know exactly what they requested and exactly what was provided in response back in October? I assume it was in the form of a 221g.

[Audy_Rob 26]

... They wanted to validate the relationship of the son to her vs. the relationship with the father, her ex-husband. ...

Yes, this seems very unusual. It seems as the Consulate is trying to act as a Custody Evaluator to determine if she should have custody of the child and be allowed to take the child to the USA.

What should matter is if she has the legal custody of the child by a court order or legal agreement with the ex-husband and if she has the right to take the child out of the country.

The description provided in quotes above seems very unusual.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Typically I thought what was required in a case like this is proof of immediate relative relationship (that is legal proof such as a birth certificate).

In addition some document from the father of the child that shows he is permitting the child to immigrate is required.

I dont think that pictures and proof of social relationship is what they are looking for.

I may be totally off base here. Do you know exactly what they requested and exactly what was provided in response back in October? I assume it was in the form of a 221g.

This is actually very common at the consulate in HCM. More than half the people in the country have the same family name (Nguyen), and more than half the girls have the same middle name (Thi). So, for any particular "given" name, there would probably be literally millions of other girls in Vietnam with the exact same name. A birth certificate alone will prove absolutely nothing. What's more, with a little "coffee money" you can get a birth certificate that says virtually anything you want it to say.

The reason they need this positive proof is because it is not uncommon for someone getting a spousal or fiancee visa to try to bring a nephew or cousin or even a sibling to the US with them. Remember that this is a high fraud country, and a lot of people will do practically anything to get out of there.

What they want is photos showing the beneficiary with the child, starting when the child is young and progressing as the child grows older. They also want to see household registry books, school records, and anything else that shows that there is a real parental relationship between the beneficiary and the child.

Bernie, Doan may remember that they took Phuong into a private interview room to present her evidence for her children, since she had two teenage kids applying for K2's. Phuong had a folder full of photos, records, and assorted documents to present. Even though she brought dozens of photos with her to HCMC, Mr. Nam said that more would probably be needed. So, she called her eldest daughter in Hue and had her hand carry all the photos they could find to the airport in Phu Bai, and paid a premium price to have them delivered in a courier packet to HCMC on the next flight.

Even USCIS is aware of the difficulty of proving a family relationship with nothing more than birth certificates in Vietnam. Phuong's uncle recently petitioned for his sister, and he had to provide similar photographic and document evidence to prove the family relationship.

Terry, your fiancee can usually submit additional information while your case is in AP. Bear in mind that any additional information may only add to the time you're in AP, but if it makes the difference between failure or ultimately getting the visa, then it will be worth the extra wait.

[Bernie C 24]

This is actually very common at the consulate in HCM. More than half the people in the country have the same family name (Nguyen), and more than half the girls have the same middle name (Thi). So, for any particular "given" name, there would probably be literally millions of other girls in Vietnam with the exact same name. A birth certificate alone will prove absolutely nothing. What's more, with a little "coffee money" you can get a birth certificate that says virtually anything you want it to say.

The reason they need this positive proof is because it is not uncommon for someone getting a spousal or fiancee visa to try to bring a nephew or cousin or even a sibling to the US with them. Remember that this is a high fraud country, and a lot of people will do practically anything to get out of there.

What they want is photos showing the beneficiary with the child, starting when the child is young and progressing as the child grows older. They also want to see household registry books, school records, and anything else that shows that there is a real parental relationship between the beneficiary and the child.

Bernie, Doan may remember that they took Phuong into a private interview room to present her evidence for her children, since she had two teenage kids applying for K2's. Phuong had a folder full of photos, records, and assorted documents to present. Even though she brought dozens of photos with her to HCMC, Mr. Nam said that more would probably be needed. So, she called her eldest daughter in Hue and had her hand carry all the photos they could find to the airport in Phu Bai, and paid a premium price to have them delivered in a courier packet to HCMC on the next flight.

Even USCIS is aware of the difficulty of proving a family relationship with nothing more than birth certificates in Vietnam. Phuong's uncle recently petitioned for his sister, and he had to provide similar photographic and document evidence to prove the family relationship.

Terry, your fiancee can usually submit additional information while your case is in AP. Bear in mind that any additional information may only add to the time you're in AP, but if it makes the difference between failure or ultimately getting the visa, then it will be worth the extra wait.

Thanks for the clarification Jim, I dont think I ever fully grapsed the level of detail on this part with the kids. Would DNA test provide the level of proof required as possible option?

[ScottThuy 140]

The clerk at the window in HCMC toldme adding additional info did not move us to the back of the queue.. she said that once we were in AP that we stayed in the same place in the queue. She may meincorrect as she was incorrect on some other things...

IMO adding additional info is a good thing and not a bad thing...

DNA could be a good source of proof but we are talking about VN and coffee money could change the results so I'm not sure how one would ensure that the DNA evidence was valid.

Edited April 18, 2010 by ScottThuy

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

The clerk at the window in HCMC toldme adding additional info did not move us to the back of the queue.. she said that once we were in AP that we stayed in the same place in the queue. She may meincorrect as she was incorrect on some other things...

IMO adding additional info is a good thing and not a bad thing...

DNA could be a good source of proof but we are talking about VN and coffee money could change the results so I'm not sure how one would ensure that the DNA evidence was valid.

Hi Scott.

I don't think it would change your position in the queue, but submitting more evidence may give them more material to investigate, which would add additional time. I recall someone in the VN regional forum asking the CO about whether additional evidence would mean a longer wait, and the CO basically said it could, depending on what they submit. That may not be a bad thing, if the extra investigation results in them concluding that everything is kosher, and they ultimately approve the visa.

I agree that additional evidence is almost always a good thing, unless you inadvertently submit evidence that confirms what they are suspecting and the reason for the AP. But this goes back to the same arguments for and against frontloading. I guess a better way of wording this would be if the CO perceives a problem in your case that doesn't really exist, then evidence proving there is no problem is always a good thing. If the CO perceives a problem that does exist, that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish!

I've never heard of the consulate in HCM asking for DNA evidence for anything other than a CRBA. Then again, we don't get many first hand case reports on VJ about problems with proof of parental relationship between the K1 and K2 beneficiaries. I just know from personal experience that they do require that proof.

[lindal24 1]

My step-dad's petition is at the uSCIS stage and they requested my father to submit additional evidence of a bonafide relationship since the birth certificate was only filed 6-7 years ago (20 some-odd years after he was born). In the RFE, they also provided information on DNA testing--my father ended up going that route since it's the strongest type of evidence. They do accept affidavits, and we sent two in with the original petition, and two more for the RFE but am hoping the DNA evidence will provide all evidence needed for case approval.

If it's approved by the USCIS and NVC, does the beneficiary still have to go interview? This is an immigration case not based on marriage, so there's NO CHANCE of fraud after the DNA testing results prove that they are father and son.

Also, anyone who has had DNA testing done between where petitioner took test in US and beneficiary takes test in VN, do you know how long the wait is after the Consulate gets the test kit? Do they call or does the beneficiary need to inquire?

Thanks...

[ScottThuy 140]

Frommy understanding the beneficiary still needs to go to an interview,but not the same as your hubby had. they have to collect biometrics for the person being issues the visa..that way they can confirm who is using the visa at POE...

Given the time lag when it comes to getting info from the consulate..I would say call them... The DoS can be helpful sometimes... When I called today the lady seemed put out that I was taking up her time since she could see that they responded to my email this morning...

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

If it's approved by the USCIS and NVC, does the beneficiary still have to go interview? This is an immigration case not based on marriage, so there's NO CHANCE of fraud after the DNA testing results prove that they are father and son.

Yeah, the consulate still has to interview everyone for inadmissibility, regardless of what kind of visa they are getting.

[lindal24 1]

Yeah, the consulate still has to interview everyone for inadmissibility, regardless of what kind of visa they are getting.

What type of inadmissibility is there for this type of case (USC father petitionin for his VNC married child over 21)?

[ScottThuy 140]

usually stuff like potential medical or security threat to the US... thus the police cert and medical...