Thinking Canadian in the USA

[Udella&Wiz 325]

Let me go out on a precarious limb here and make statement that I find to be true after living here several years...it was first voiced to me a few years ago by another Cdn friend who had lived in the US for a while.

'America has a culture of fear'.....and by this I mean, people seem to live in constant fear that their rights will be taken away...whether it be to bear arms, freedom of speech or whatever. They fight like crazy as if every new law somehow challenges those rights and insults them to their very core. I don;t remember being overly concerne din Canada that my basic rights might go down the toilet....

In a single State, if the persons entrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair

Am I the only one who realizes this was written in the 1700's and maybe what was written then might not work as well today? It sounds all romantic that the citizens should rush to defend their rights....but hello in 2010..If I run out the door and start towards Washington with a gun because i don;t like what they're doing....exactly how far do you think I'll get???? I mean c'mon.

Again the fear....is someone worried that they might need to defend their frontyard so desparately that they must have teh right to have a gun?

Anyhoo - just thought I'd throw this bomb out there

[Heather&Matt 0]

Courtesy - the common 'please', 'thank you' and 'you're welcome' are not generally part of the daily conversation. I say 'thank you' to someone and I get an 'uh unh' . In the stores I hear people say 'gimme so and so' and when they get what they want they don't bother to say 'thanks'. It is either nothing or something like a 'grunt'.

I completely agree. When I first started dating my husband and going over to Buffalo to see him, I noticed this immediately. I know the stereotyype of Canadians is that we are too polite, which I don't think is a bad mold to fit into at all, but I like when someone acknowledges my thank you or my politeness opposed to just shrugging it off with an 'uh huh.'

[The_Dude 1,142]

Well, as I stated before, it doesn't take alot of digging to prove you wrong. The Federalist papers were writings of the founders that essentially clarified their intent regarding certain matters so there would be no confusion. I could fill these pages with evidence to support my position.

Alexander Hamilton in Federalist #29 addresses this.

Hamilton clearly states there exists a right of self-defense against a tyrannical government, and it includes the people with their own arms and adds:

"[T]he people, without exaggeration, may be said to be entirely the masters of their own fate. Power being almost always the rival of power, the general government will at all times stand ready to check the usurpations of the state governments, and these will have the same disposition towards the general government. The people by throwing themselves into either scale, will infallibly make it preponderate. If their rights are invaded by either, they can make use of the other as the instrument of redress. How wise will it be in them by cherishing the union to preserve to themselves an advantage which can never be too highly prized!"

In Federalist #28, Hamilton wrote;

"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no recourse left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual State. In a single State, if the persons entrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair."

...and as I stated before, the Supreme court has upheld this right. Just because YOU don't want it to be true, doesn't mean it isn't true.

Again, you are interpreting what "Self-defense" means. The 2nd amendment was written in a time when we had no standing professional army.

Federalist Paper 29

It requires no skill in the science of war to discern that uniformity in the organization and discipline of the militia would be attended with the most beneficial effects, whenever they were called into service for the public defense. It would enable them to discharge the duties of the camp and of the field with mutual intelligence and concert an advantage of peculiar moment in the operations of an army; and it would fit them much sooner to acquire the degree of proficiency in military functions which would be essential to their usefulness.

That seems quite self evident what they meant by it. The people were to be in charge of the milita, and to bear arms so as to be able to function in a proper manner, to function as the military of the nation.

Federalist Paper 28

THAT there may happen cases in which the national government may be necessitated to resort to force, cannot be denied. Our own experience has corroborated the lessons taught by the examples of other nations; that emergencies of this sort will sometimes arise in all societies, however constituted; that seditions and insurrections are, unhappily, maladies as inseparable from the body politic as tumors and eruptions from the natural body; that the idea of governing at all times by the simple force of law (which we have been told is the only admissible principle of republican government), has no place but in the reveries of those political doctors whose sagacity disdains the admonitions of experimental instruction.

Should such emergencies at any time happen under the national government, there could be no remedy but force. The means to be employed must be proportioned to the extent of the mischief. If it should be a slight commotion in a small part of a State, the militia of the residue would be adequate to its suppression; and the national presumption is that they would be ready to do their duty.

Again, this makes no mention of any right to secede or protect against an overbearing government, it actually refers to such as 'maladies'. It does however say that they will happen from time to time as is our experiences and that it is the militias be used to combat such usurpers.

[Spoom 8]

Please keep this thread on topic, I'd rather it not become another second amendment debate.

[CdnMN 0]

How about chewing tobacco. Until I moved here, I never knew there were so many brands and flavors.

When I was a lot younger, I was on a fishing trip and saw REDMAN in one of the corner stores...so I naturally had to try it. After turning 3 shades of green (and that was the mild side effect) I never touched the stuff.

CdnMn

[SapphireDreams 71]

I'd say my experience has been pretty positive and I have no erally encountered a lot of what is discussed in this thread. I live in probably the most ethnically diverse city and borough in the US. My employer has offices all over the world and actually in my office I work with a few brits, other Canadians and Americans who have lives in many places. NYC really is a great place to live in terms of diversity, liberalism and acceptance among people. Sure, it's not the most friendly place, people are definitely not going to say hello on the sidewalk or maybe even say 'your welcome' when you thank them, but that's just the way it is here adn it wasn't much different in Toronto either.

Religion is definitely prominent here, but I also married a practising Catholic who went to private Catholic school. In Canada, I was also raised Catholic, but my parents were not practising... but that's not to say that Canadian Catholics I know aren't the same as my practising friends here so it's not really a fair comparison.

Politics are politics - i was raised not discuss them with friends and we don't. We have both democrat and republican friends and we all get along great. It's just not discussed and that's how I think it should be. That's how it was in Canada for me too.

All of my new friends are all very open-minded, polite and love to learn about Canada. My co-workers love me and my Canadian-ness and I love them for it.

I've pretty much stopped looking and pointing out all the differences. I mean there are some definite differences, but you can also say that about Texas and NYC.

[trailmix 77]

True, there are differences all over. I'm sure if we all moved to Bulgaria we would have some comparisons to make as well

I don't think we can take the comments here in a bubble. When I made that statement about the racist remarks made where my Husband was working at the time - I never meant to imply - and don't think I did - that racism is not alive and well in Canada (and probably in Bulgaria too).

It's just that kind of comment would never have been spoken any place that I have worked here - nor where he has worked. On the flipside, he worked for another company - and it could not have been more different to his first workplace in the U.S. - nice people, no racist comments being made etc etc.

Canada is diverse too, what you hear in metropolitan Toronto may not be the same culture that exists in Moosejaw.

We can all stop making comparisons between the culture of the U.S. and Canada - but that would be boring

Edited April 15, 2010 by trailmix

[The_Dude 1,142]

How about chewing tobacco. Until I moved here, I never knew there were so many brands and flavors.

LoL, I could say the same thing about my move from california to south carolina.

[SapphireDreams 71]

True, there are differences all over. I'm sure if we all moved to Bulgaria we would have some comparisons to make as well

I don't think we can take the comments here in a bubble. When I made that statement about the racist remarks made where my Husband was working at the time - I never meant to imply - and don't think I did - that racism is not alive and well in Canada (and probably in Bulgaria too).

It's just that kind of comment would never have been spoken any place that I have worked here - nor where he has worked. On the flipside, he worked for another company - and it could not have been more different to his first workplace in the U.S. - nice people, no racist comments being made etc etc.

Canada is diverse too, what you hear in metropolitan Toronto may not be the same culture that exists in Moosejaw.

We can all stop making comparisons between the culture of the U.S. and Canada - but that would be boring

it's true, I am still always interested in cultural difference between Canada and the US, it'll never stop intriguing me. I mean just the other I said "We used to play soccer baseball in gym class" and my American friends and husband included looked at my like I was crazy! They call it kick ball. It's always funny when things like that happen. Same with at work the other day I said, "freezie" and everyone was like huh? I'm like ohhh right "freeze pops"

I mean I spent an hour once having a conversation with a guy from Saskatchewan... also very interesting! Toronto is very different!

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Let me go out on a precarious limb here and make statement that I find to be true after living here several years...it was first voiced to me a few years ago by another Cdn friend who had lived in the US for a while.

'America has a culture of fear'.....and by this I mean, people seem to live in constant fear that their rights will be taken away...whether it be to bear arms, freedom of speech or whatever. They fight like crazy as if every new law somehow challenges those rights and insults them to their very core. I don;t remember being overly concerne din Canada that my basic rights might go down the toilet....

In a single State, if the persons entrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair

Am I the only one who realizes this was written in the 1700's and maybe what was written then might not work as well today? It sounds all romantic that the citizens should rush to defend their rights....but hello in 2010..If I run out the door and start towards Washington with a gun because i don;t like what they're doing....exactly how far do you think I'll get???? I mean c'mon.

Again the fear....is someone worried that they might need to defend their frontyard so desparately that they must have teh right to have a gun?

Anyhoo - just thought I'd throw this bomb out there

I think this does hit the nail on the head as one of the main differences in attitude and approach. The US does seem to have a much stronger culture of 'fear' - fear that they will lose out, that someone will take something away from them, that sharing will put them at risk for losing, that being kind will open them up to being taken advantage of, that life is an either/ or situation, that choices are only black and white, that it is either us or them - whether it is religion, politics, race, or culture - and you have to 'get them' before they 'get you'. In Canada, life has so many more varying shades of gray without the 'absolutes'. While I know that there are people who are 'fearful' in Canada as well, it doesn't seem to be so pervasive an attitude throughout the whole society.

[trailmix 77]

I think this does hit the nail on the head as one of the main differences in attitude and approach. The US does seem to have a much stronger culture of 'fear' - fear that they will lose out, that someone will take something away from them, that sharing will put them at risk for losing, that being kind will open them up to being taken advantage of, that life is an either/ or situation, that choices are only black and white, that it is either us or them - whether it is religion, politics, race, or culture - and you have to 'get them' before they 'get you'. In Canada, life has so many more varying shades of gray without the 'absolutes'. While I know that there are people who are 'fearful' in Canada as well, it doesn't seem to be so pervasive an attitude throughout the whole society.

And I don't blame them. What about health care, or lack thereof - you are on your own. We have easy access to healthcare here - in general, you do not there - and even if you do, what's to say that if you lose your job tomorrow you will still have that - that's enough to make any sane person fearful.

As for the fear of losing out, that someone will take something away from them - well that's a real fear, as I mentioned above - but certainly that probably permeates other thoughts and feelings they have.

Seems to me that whomever dreamed up the whole healthcare attached to a job scenario knew exactly what they were doing....keeps the workers at their work and paying their taxes. Fear works - people/government/organizations know this. That's why you see things on tv like a horrendous car crash, 'inspiring' you to donate blood or the list of all the eye diseases you could get, to 'inspire' you to see a registered optometrist yearly.

Fear also sells.

Edited April 15, 2010 by trailmix

[VanessaTony 3,567]

I miss thinking in "Celsius". I haven't been in the U.S. that long for pete's sake (well 2-1/2 years); however, I find that I have to keep my mind refreshed by googling the weather on a frequent basis to get the temp conversion.

Someone taught me on holiday once that to get a rough estimate of F to C you take the F temp, subtract 32 then divide the remainder in half. For example: 80F would be -- 80-32=48, 48/2= 24 therefore 80F = 24C. (it's actually 26C but it's close enough to get an idea). Hope that gives you something fun to do (I actually enjoy testing it out).

Anyway, you all know I'm not Canadian but I have enjoyed reading this post.. it's helped me learn more about Canada.

[Sam and Ben 2]

I was always taught the conversion of multiply the temp by two and then add thirty-two.

Thinking in Fahrenheit wasn't an issue for me, as I don't think I ever recall watching any morning news program that wasn't fed from the States.

[zenaxe 22]

This is actually in the constitution. "The right to bear arms" was originally intended that the people could overthrow the fed gov if they were unhappy.

That's what I've been told anyway.

My USC wife says that the right to bear arms and the militia thing isn't about overthrowing the federal gov't if citizens were unhappy. It was about supporting a growing US army that was still new and required support. As well, the Constitution is the head of any state militia so President Obama would still be in charge and command those militias....so it's kind of funny that these angry white old men that are disgruntled and don't like the Obama administration, going on with this militia thing, but they haven't thought this through because the Constitituion clearly shows the Prez as the commander in chief of these rogue militias...scary also to have a group of mostly right leaning religious types, running around with guns, trucks with rifles mounted, protecting people from what exactly????

Ya there are some really interesting things going on down there. I think most Canadians are in for some serious culture shock. I didn't realize until I got enmeshed into this. I'm still in Canada mind you. Can you say adjustment?? It's going to take a while.

[Peachey 10]

it's true, I am still always interested in cultural difference between Canada and the US, it'll never stop intriguing me. I mean just the other I said "We used to play soccer baseball in gym class" and my American friends and husband included looked at my like I was crazy! They call it kick ball. It's always funny when things like that happen. Same with at work the other day I said, "freezie" and everyone was like huh? I'm like ohhh right "freeze pops"

We used to call it chinese baseball.