I just saw a trailor of journey from the fall

[lambchop4life 6]

It made my eyes water, It gave me flashback when we were on the boat in the middle of no where.

Seeing this trailer made me hate those wackos Vietcong from the North

Edited April 14, 2010 by lambchop4life

[ScottThuy 140]

It made my eyes water, It gave me flashback when we were on the boat in the middle of no where.

Seeing this trailer made me hate those wackos Vietcong from the North

Please take great caution categorizing people from North VN. I empathize with what you went through. Politics in the VN regional area can lead to a great deal of friction better left out of forum.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Please take great caution categorizing people from North VN. I empathize with what you went through. Politics in the VN regional area can lead to a great deal of friction better left out of forum.

This may be over generalizing what he wrote. Not everyone from the north was VC, and not all of the VC were in the north.

For obvious reasons, people in VN are very reluctant to talk about what happened in the years after the war. What's not as well known is that VN people living in the US are also reluctant to talk about it, and speak of it only in private among trusted friends and relatives. There is a widely held belief that there are VN government spies living in the US, and they will make life difficult for the family of Viet Kieu still living in VN, or that they themselves will be arrested if they return to VN.

I think it took a lot of courage for the film maker to produce this film.

[lindal24 1]

I've rented this film from Netflix to watch...

Another good Vietnamese movie that I actually saw in theatres was The Owl and the Sparrow.

[ScottThuy 140]

I understand Jim, But there are a few others here that love to take advantage of every opportunity to bash the north and hate to see the forum go down that road again... it was a cautionary statement on my part given how ugly it has gotten really fast in the past... since he is a newbie he has no idea what has been said in previous topics... keeping the topic on the movie and not the politics isnt a bad thing...

Any film that brings to light what people are affraid to discuss is a good thing... I have many friends that went through this exact journey...

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

I understand Jim, But there are a few others here that love to take advantage of every opportunity to bash the north and hate to see the forum go down that road again... it was a cautionary statement on my part given how ugly it has gotten really fast in the past... since he is a newbie he has no idea what has been said in previous topics... keeping the topic on the movie and not the politics isnt a bad thing...

Any film that brings to light what people are affraid to discuss is a good thing... I have many friends that went through this exact journey...

Agreed. Politics is what it is. Nothing we say will change that. Besides, there's always a lively debate going on in the off-topic forum for people who really want to discuss politics.

[BinhJerome 14]

What I have found is funny is how quickly people can jump to conclusions with “innocent” statements, but what is really sad is that most “innocent” statements are not innocent at all, just made out of ignorance. Every government uses propaganda, and then when you throw in the Hollywood version it can get way out of hand, most older Vietnamese war movies speak nonsense, I know this because some of the statements that are in them Binh and her mother have asked what they meant. Each story comes from one persons view, this movie was good, but it was through the author’s eyes, and might not truly represent the majority. We have all heard how bad it was right after the war, but is this coming from a pissed of person? Most are very legitimate gripes, and horror stories, but they are ALL from one side’s perspective. The only difference between a war hero and a war criminal is who wins the war. There are many atrocities that go on in every war, not just in the Vietnam War. The fact is that unless we lived it, there is no real representation of what the people went through, some people that were in the bad areas even have mixed feelings on the subject, much as in our visa applications that we file, each case is different, and what happens to you might not happen to them. I think discussing politics even in the off topic area are better off not even starting as there will always be people with heated responses and those that will take offense to “innocent” remarks, and as in any forum, anything that resembles discrimination or derogatory statements should be left out, even if they were “innocent” statements. This is just my opinion. Jerome

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

What I have found is funny is how quickly people can jump to conclusions with “innocent” statements, but what is really sad is that most “innocent” statements are not innocent at all, just made out of ignorance. Every government uses propaganda, and then when you throw in the Hollywood version it can get way out of hand, most older Vietnamese war movies speak nonsense, I know this because some of the statements that are in them Binh and her mother have asked what they meant. Each story comes from one persons view, this movie was good, but it was through the author’s eyes, and might not truly represent the majority. We have all heard how bad it was right after the war, but is this coming from a pissed of person? Most are very legitimate gripes, and horror stories, but they are ALL from one side’s perspective. The only difference between a war hero and a war criminal is who wins the war. There are many atrocities that go on in every war, not just in the Vietnam War. The fact is that unless we lived it, there is no real representation of what the people went through, some people that were in the bad areas even have mixed feelings on the subject, much as in our visa applications that we file, each case is different, and what happens to you might not happen to them. I think discussing politics even in the off topic area are better off not even starting as there will always be people with heated responses and those that will take offense to “innocent” remarks, and as in any forum, anything that resembles discrimination or derogatory statements should be left out, even if they were “innocent” statements. This is just my opinion. Jerome

Every story is from the perspective of the story teller. The film is not a documentary, so it doesn't have to pretend to be fair and unbiased. It is the story of two people, told from their own perspectives. Unless there's evidence they lied, you have to assume that the film depicts more or less what happened to them. You don't have to assume that what they described happened to everyone, or even that it happened to most people. But there is overwhelming evidence that it happened to some people. I've heard the stories of many people who survived that time, and their stories are consistent with what is depicted in the film.

[BinhJerome 14]

Every story is from the perspective of the story teller. The film is not a documentary, so it doesn't have to pretend to be fair and unbiased. It is the story of two people, told from their own perspectives. Unless there's evidence they lied, you have to assume that the film depicts more or less what happened to them. You don't have to assume that what they described happened to everyone, or even that it happened to most people. But there is overwhelming evidence that it happened to some people. I've heard the stories of many people who survived that time, and their stories are consistent with what is depicted in the film.

I have also heard the same, and then I have also heard that it was basically total lies, and that it was nothing like that, some worse, and some much better. I never said that the story happened to everyone nor did I assume that either, I was just stating an obvious fact, that each and EVERY persons perspective is just that, their own perspective much as in the visa applications, the views of their experiences are just that, their own views. Your wife is from the north, I am sure that her family had mixed views of the war, and that they will vary greatly from some people from the south, as well as from their own home town. All I was simply stating was that each person takes different things away from certain situations, the same situation might lead to different views and feelings from one person to another, yes there might be many that feel the same way, and there will also be those that always feel differently, much is the case with the entire HCMC consulate experience, or with hiring a lawyer. Jerome

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

I have also heard the same, and then I have also heard that it was basically total lies, and that it was nothing like that, some worse, and some much better. I never said that the story happened to everyone nor did I assume that either, I was just stating an obvious fact, that each and EVERY persons perspective is just that, their own perspective much as in the visa applications, the views of their experiences are just that, their own views. Your wife is from the north, I am sure that her family had mixed views of the war, and that they will vary greatly from some people from the south, as well as from their own home town. All I was simply stating was that each person takes different things away from certain situations, the same situation might lead to different views and feelings from one person to another, yes there might be many that feel the same way, and there will also be those that always feel differently, much is the case with the entire HCMC consulate experience, or with hiring a lawyer. Jerome

My wife is from Hue, which is in the central part of the country. For much of the war, it was under the control of the south, being only 50 km south of the DMZ that separated the north from the south. For a brief period after the Tet offensive, it was under control of the north, but was retaken by American forces during the Battle of Hue. On their retreat, the NVA slaughtered anyone associated with the city government and dumped them in mass graves. International media filmed these graves as the American forces entered the city.

After the fall of the south, my wife's uncle hid in the jungle for five years to avoid being captured by the communists. His crime? His father had a pass to enter the US military base in Da Nang with his push cart to sell sandwiches. His father had already been arrested (and was never seen again), so he ran and hid. Eventually, he came down out of the hills and got onto a fishing boat in Da Nang. After nearly starving at sea, they were picked up by a Chinese trawler and taken to a refugee camp in Hong Kong. He eventually got approval to immigrate to the US. His brother wasn't so lucky, and spent 3 years in a reeducation camp. His brother still lives in Vietnam in a village outside Hue.

Sure, this is only two people whose stories corroborate what is depicted in the film. There are also over 800,000 Vietnamese refugees who were resettled in the US, many of whom told similar stories. Yes, each persons story is from their own perspective, but when millions escape over the course of a decade and are known around the world as the "Vietnamese boat people", then you have to accept that there is some historical fact behind it.

Back to the film, the film maker never claims that this is a documentary presentation even from the perspective of the two central characters in the film. Instead, he says it is based on actual events, which I presume means that some creative license was taken in building a dramatic story around the two characters. The boat people and the reeducation camps are a fact of history, so the real question is whether the portrayal in the film is a realistic portrayal of these historical facts. My wife's uncle and his brother say yes.

[BinhJerome 14]

Read my post Jim, I did make the mistake that your wife is from the north, and yes it is known facts of what happened when the Americans made it back into Hue, but there ARE MANY sides to every story, different takes on what happened, I am not saying something did or did not happen, I do not know where or if you think that is what I was saying. SO to try one more time to reiterate what my point is since this IS the Vietnam forum.

There are always two or more sides to EVERY story PERIOD......... Each person takes different things from each situation, and these situations influence people's opinions. When going through HCMC consulate people have different opinions on their outcomes. Some feel that it is hell and unjust, and think the entire system here is a joke, while others that had it easier feel that the consulate does a good job, and yet both types of people were put into very similar situations.

Binh's family also came from Hue, and they all have very mixed feelings, her father was put into a reeducation camp along with many of her uncles, and some of them were also never heard from again, and some were taken to America. There is a story with every family in Vietnam, and each of them has different opinions on the war, what happened and what did not happen. The North might have killed hundreds and thousands of innocent people, but the facts also show the South's government and the United States government did the same as well, it was just not made as public as what happened at Hue.

[ScottThuy 140]

Read my post Jim, I did make the mistake that your wife is from the north, and yes it is known facts of what happened when the Americans made it back into Hue, but there ARE MANY sides to every story, different takes on what happened, I am not saying something did or did not happen, I do not know where or if you think that is what I was saying. SO to try one more time to reiterate what my point is since this IS the Vietnam forum.

There are always two or more sides to EVERY story PERIOD......... Each person takes different things from each situation, and these situations influence people's opinions. When going through HCMC consulate people have different opinions on their outcomes. Some feel that it is hell and unjust, and think the entire system here is a joke, while others that had it easier feel that the consulate does a good job, and yet both types of people were put into very similar situations.

Binh's family also came from Hue, and they all have very mixed feelings, her father was put into a reeducation camp along with many of her uncles, and some of them were also never heard from again, and some were taken to America. There is a story with every family in Vietnam, and each of them has different opinions on the war, what happened and what did not happen. The North might have killed hundreds and thousands of innocent people, but the facts also show the South's government and the United States government did the same as well, it was just not made as public as what happened at Hue.

I have heard some horror stories about the camps along the way... If I remember my friend was in a camp in Malaysia? before he could get to the US and from what he tells it was not all that different from what many went through in VN... he said there were a great many that died in the camp while waiting. I guess that the people (our military) that were running the camp, had serious issues left to be resolved and vented on those that fled the country... talk about kicking someone when they are down...

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Read my post Jim, I did make the mistake that your wife is from the north, and yes it is known facts of what happened when the Americans made it back into Hue, but there ARE MANY sides to every story, different takes on what happened, I am not saying something did or did not happen, I do not know where or if you think that is what I was saying. SO to try one more time to reiterate what my point is since this IS the Vietnam forum.

There are always two or more sides to EVERY story PERIOD......... Each person takes different things from each situation, and these situations influence people's opinions. When going through HCMC consulate people have different opinions on their outcomes. Some feel that it is hell and unjust, and think the entire system here is a joke, while others that had it easier feel that the consulate does a good job, and yet both types of people were put into very similar situations.

Binh's family also came from Hue, and they all have very mixed feelings, her father was put into a reeducation camp along with many of her uncles, and some of them were also never heard from again, and some were taken to America. There is a story with every family in Vietnam, and each of them has different opinions on the war, what happened and what did not happen. The North might have killed hundreds and thousands of innocent people, but the facts also show the South's government and the United States government did the same as well, it was just not made as public as what happened at Hue.

I'm sorry we got sidetracked with the story of Hue, but I thought it was important to clear that up. You implied that my perspective might be skewed because you thought my wife was from the north. You are correct that my perspective is skewed, but I wanted to make it clear that my wife is from the south. My perspective was skewed long before I met her.

This little debate began because you implied that the film is essentially Hollywood propaganda because it doesn't tell both sides of the story, and some skepticism is called for. I agree that it only tells one side of the story, but I don't think it could be classified as propaganda because it doesn't pretend to be a fair treatment of the subject. It is a dramatization of the story of two people, from the perspective of those two people. Aside from a normal critique of the film's dramatic presentation, the only other thing that could be argued is whether the events depicted are plausible - i.e., could they have actually happened as described, or is the film maker intentionally presenting a false and misleading depiction of historical events with the intent of influencing opinions (which would be propaganda). I am saying that the film doesn't fall to the level of propaganda because it doesn't pretend to be the only valid perspective, and because it's presentation is valid from the perspective that it DOES present because it can be corroborated by people who experienced these events from the same perspective.

[NQT1976 1]

this film was being banned in Vietnam. anyone who sold or rent or watch it will be in prison for sure

[BinhJerome 14]

What I have found is funny is how quickly people can jump to conclusions with "innocent" statements, but what is really sad is that most "innocent" statements are not innocent at all, just made out of ignorance. Every government uses propaganda, and then when you throw in the Hollywood version it can get way out of hand, most older Vietnamese war movies speak nonsense, I know this because some of the statements that are in them Binh and her mother have asked what they meant. Each story comes from one persons view, this movie was good, but it was through the author's eyes, and might not truly represent the majority. We have all heard how bad it was right after the war, but is this coming from a pissed of person? Most are very legitimate gripes, and horror stories, but they are ALL from one side's perspective. The only difference between a war hero and a war criminal is who wins the war. There are many atrocities that go on in every war, not just in the Vietnam War. The fact is that unless we lived it, there is no real representation of what the people went through, some people that were in the bad areas even have mixed feelings on the subject, much as in our visa applications that we file, each case is different, and what happens to you might not happen to them. I think discussing politics even in the off topic area are better off not even starting as there will always be people with heated responses and those that will take offense to "innocent" remarks, and as in any forum, anything that resembles discrimination or derogatory statements should be left out, even if they were "innocent" statements. This is just my opinion. Jerome

Jim, what I meant in this post is that all governments use propaganda, and with all the propaganda involved when movie makers make movies how much of the governments progaganda affected the movie? Everyone has to admit that what the governments do DOES affect peoples views, but in my post I was simply making a generalization of "OLDER" vietnam movies I.E. Platoon, Full Metal Jacket Hamburger Hill, and the list goes on and on As for your wife being from the South, I was not hinting that your view would be skewed because of this, I thought she was from the north, and I know people from the north even have mixed views on what really happened, that was my only reason for using her as reference. Then the entire point was to simply point out that it was a good movie, and that it was one persons views. Then my later post's were to bring one person's view into context with what we all go through at HCMC, as in the consulate at HCMC one person's view of how HCMC is might be shared by many people and at the same time not shared simply because one person's view of their experiance with HCMC consulate was that, THEIR OWN. Sorry for not making myself clear Jerome