Separating the Religious Ceremony from the Civil

[ashenflowers 5]

I would choose CR1, at this point, as my last option if there was nothing else on offer

It's funny how each of us see this differently - in terms of which visa to apply for. At least if they get the ball rolling on the K1 now, they should be in the U.S. living together by the end of this year.

Why they would want to wait another 5 months, then get married and apply for a CR1, which might get them together by say May-June 2011 - I just don't get that - but hey, that's me (this is aside from the whole have a religious ceremony first question).

For me, the reason I suggested the waiting is because looking back now that's how I wish I could have done it. At the time, my now-husband and I were only able to visit each other every 2-4 months, so being together faster seemed like the more logical way to go. Not seeing each other, and having to take so much time and expense just for visits was wearing down on us. And even then, we still saw each other more often than some other couples do. But since at the time we would've had to wait a few months (for planning and for his next visit there) in order to just do what would have felt like, for us, a rushed marriage, we went for the K-1 and waited to marry. I also felt it would've been strange to be married and apart, as opposed to engaged and apart. If things were different (i.e. we were able to visit each other more often, like the OP is able to do, and if we were closer), I'd definitely have waited a few months, been married in Canada with all friends and family, and done a CR-1.

Actually... scratch that. If things were different, and we'd have known they'd end up like they are now, my husband would've moved back to Canada, we'd have been married there and probably DCF'd it a few years down the line. lol ... but that's just me and my situation, I guess.

Edited April 13, 2010 by ashenflowers

[Krikit 1,165]

Then the idea came that we could separate the religious ceremony from the civil one. She would fly down the week before...we would have the religious ceremony and she would fly back to Canada after the wedding wait for the VISA.

Your use of the words "religious ceremony" and "wedding" are what's throwing us off.... because those who had religious ceremonies/weddings are certainly legally married. Perhaps if you called it a "blessing"? While there is nothing wrong with your plan to have two separate ceremonies, you do run the risk of her being refused entry to attend the "wedding". It has happened many times.

In Canada there are several facets that make a marriage legal.

1) The couple must obtain a valid marriage license

A marriage license is not required if you have the banns read.

We want to do this the legal and proper way with no lieing, no cheating, no deception, while also obeying the Laws of the USA and Canada. But, I just do not see what interest the US or Canadian government would have in a purely religious ceremony where legal matters were not involved-perhaps this is because I am protestant.

You are at risk of encountering two obstacles with this plan. First, she has to convince the CBP Officer that she is returning to Canada. Second, she has to convince the Consulate Officer that she is not already married. There are many examples on this site of members who were not able to overcome those obstacles. Then, again, there are examples of members who were able to overcome them. What you have to do is decide whether those risks are acceptable or not, and have a backup plan. What are you going to do with wedding guests, et al, if there is no bride? What are you going to do if the religious ceremony occurs but the Consulate Officer sees it as valid and denies the visa? These are the things which you must think about.

Thank you...will do! I do not how a ceremony can be legally binding without a marriage license?! The laws are pretty strict about this in the US.

As you peruse this site reading others' experiences, you will see that the laws have very little to do with how a CBP or USCIS employee chooses to interpret them. This process is not conducted in a court of law where you can protest goings-on and cite case law...... they are the ones with the final say..... not a judge or jury.

I know this is coming across as harsh, and I apologize for that. It is not my intent to sway your decision. I wish you well.

I'd definitely have waited a few months, been married in Canada with all friends and family, and done a CR-1.

I would do exactly the same thing if I could go back.

[trailmix 77]

Actually what you are saying makes sense krikit - really, if you think about it, even if banns weren't read - who is to say that it isn't a marriage if there is a verbal contract?

I think a 'celebration' might be ok, a 'get together' - but a formal religious ceremony where promises are made .... hmm.

Also, as you said, this stuff doesn't take place in a court of law, while sometimes common sense and even the law might view things differently, you have to be prepared to take it to court - and that's pretty extreme.

[SapphireDreams 71]

I also completely agree with Krikit.

I think you could potentially run into trouble at the border. For instance, if she's asked her reason for visiting? I guess she could try to get around the full truth, which is for her wedding, and then even if she is let into the country, what if (i have no idea if they do) the USCIS has access to the entry notes from border patrol who entered that she was entering for her wedding? If she's carrying her wedding dress through and all of that, well then that could definitely be interpreted a couple of different ways.

I think a lot of people rush into a K1 because they can't bear the thought of being apart after marriage or they really just want the quickest way. I don't regret doing a K1 (I was opposite, had a civil wedding and a chruch wedding later) but now I can totally see that waiting longer for a CR1 would have been just fine as well. Hindsight is 20/20 I guess.

I I was in your situation, I would 100% have my wedding September 4th, make it legal and then apply for my CR1 and continue with my visits until it was approved.

[PastorJJJ1958 0]

I also completely agree with Krikit.

I think you could potentially run into trouble at the border. For instance, if she's asked her reason for visiting? I guess she could try to get around the full truth, which is for her wedding, and then even if she is let into the country, what if (i have no idea if they do) the USCIS has access to the entry notes from border patrol who entered that she was entering for her wedding? If she's carrying her wedding dress through and all of that, well then that could definitely be interpreted a couple of different ways.

I think a lot of people rush into a K1 because they can't bear the thought of being apart after marriage or they really just want the quickest way. I don't regret doing a K1 (I was opposite, had a civil wedding and a chruch wedding later) but now I can totally see that waiting longer for a CR1 would have been just fine as well. Hindsight is 20/20 I guess.

I I was in your situation, I would 100% have my wedding September 4th, make it legal and then apply for my CR1 and continue with my visits until it was approved.

Everyone has been so kind! Thank you... This will be a matter of much prayer and discernment - the main thing is that we want to do nothing illegal and follow the laws of the Canada and US