Can a minor abandon status?

[dvddvd 0]

Can a minor abandon status?

My 16 year old step-daughter did not return with us after a summer trip to Thailand and has now been out of the USA for 12+ months. She basically refused to return with us. She now is wanting to come back and her 2 year green card is still valid.

Should we can chance it at the border OR should we apply for a return residence visa at the US consulate in Bangkok? We are leaning towards chancing it.

Thanks for any thoughts.

DVD

[Otto 83]

Why chance it?

[dvddvd 0]

Why chance it?

Because we think that it might be a little harder to deny her entry if she's already standing in the USA with her mother waiting to take her home. We're not sure if a 16 year old can be deemed to have abandon status anyway. It would be great to hear (from someone who knows) that a minor can't abandon status.

We're really unsure how we should play this and are hoping that someone has some advice.

Thoughts?

Thanks

dvd

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

Because we think that it might be a little harder to deny her entry if she's already standing in the USA with her mother waiting to take her home. We're not sure if a 16 year old can be deemed to have abandon status anyway. It would be great to hear (from someone who knows) that a minor can't abandon status.

We're really unsure how we should play this and are hoping that someone has some advice.

Thoughts?

Thanks

dvd

What we think doesn't govern what a CBP Employee thinks nor does it limit what they can do.

Contact an immigration attorney and ask them. If they're good they can provide you case history or relevant statutes which you would want to carry a copy of for your re-entry just in case there is a problem.

If you chance it and she is denied entry are your ready to put her on a return flight?

[rsn 135]

If you chance it and she is denied entry are your ready to put her on a return flight?

FYI if she is denied entry the airline is usually responsible for her return flight. It is up to them to ensure she has the proper credentials to enter the U.S. BEFORE she departs from the airport in BKK.

[Dakine 26]

What do you/she have to lose if she just "chances it"?

From what I've googled up it's not %100 abandoned if over 12 months. For one I imagine she's still a "resident" where you live.

Edited April 12, 2010 by Dakine

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

If she gets refused entry at the POA -- and after an absence of over a year, which REQUIRES a reentry permit which she doesn't have, this is VERY likely -- she will be send back and she loses the air fare for a roundtrip from Thailand to the US. How much does that cost?

IMHO, this is a no-brainer. Get a retuning resident visa. With it, she has a good chance to get things in order and reestablish her residency, if she, or you, can show that she did not plan to abandon her residency, but that unforseeable circumstances came into play, circumstances that prevented her to get a reentry permit before leaving the US.

[dvddvd 0]

If she gets refused entry at the POA -- and after an absence of over a year, which REQUIRES a reentry permit which she doesn't have, this is VERY likely -- she will be send back and she loses the air fare for a roundtrip from Thailand to the US. How much does that cost?

IMHO, this is a no-brainer. Get a retuning resident visa. With it, she has a good chance to get things in order and reestablish her residency, if she, or you, can show that she did not plan to abandon her residency, but that unforseeable circumstances came into play, circumstances that prevented her to get a reentry permit before leaving the US.

Thanks for all of the responses.

Based on what I just read at uscis.gov -

If you stay outside of United States for 1 year or more and did not apply for a reentry permit before you left, you may be considered to have abandoned your permanent resident status. If this happens, you may be referred to appear before an immigration judge to decide whether or not you have abandoned your status. If you are in this situation, contact the U.S. consulate about a returning resident visa.

Correct me if I read the above wrong, but it seems like a reentry permit is not required, but the lack of one does open the door to possibly losing status. Somebody is going to have to make that status determination. (at the poe or at the consulate in Thailand)

At this point, I think we are going to chance it. We'll be risking denial either way and think our odds are better if she is standing in the US before they decide. We have a couple more months before we have to make a final decision.

Thanks again.

[TBoneTX 45,329]

We have a couple more months before we have to make a final decision.

Since you have the couple of months, follow the advice of consulting attorneys (plural). Wouldn't you rather have a comparative slam-dunk (if one proves to be available) than, in effect, shooting your gun up into the air and hoping that a duck will be flying overhead right about then?

[sachinky 465]

What is so hard about getting a re-entry permit from US Consulate in Thailand?

You'd rather take the chance that your 16 year old daughter be refused entry into the US which is solely based on the discretion of the CBP officer and be put on the flight back?

Edited April 13, 2010 by sachinky

[Bobby+Umit 161]

Thanks for all of the responses.

Based on what I just read at uscis.gov -

If you stay outside of United States for 1 year or more and did not apply for a reentry permit before you left, you may be considered to have abandoned your permanent resident status. If this happens, you may be referred to appear before an immigration judge to decide whether or not you have abandoned your status. If you are in this situation, contact the U.S. consulate about a returning resident visa.

This is correct.

Correct me if I read the above wrong, but it seems like a reentry permit is not required, but the lack of one does open the door to possibly losing status. Somebody is going to have to make that status determination. (at the poe or at the consulate in Thailand)

Your wrong. If it wasn't required, why would they tell you to get one prior to leaving? I rather they determine at the consulate, because if the POE makes the choice, your probably going to be sent back home. (they will not care if the mother is standing there.)

At this point, I think we are going to chance it. We'll be risking denial either way and think our odds are better if she is standing in the US before they decide. We have a couple more months before we have to make a final decision.

This is a mistake, but your choice, my past study of cases like this makes the odds go opposite to what you think. Good luck.

Thanks again.

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

FYI if she is denied entry the airline is usually responsible for her return flight. It is up to them to ensure she has the proper credentials to enter the U.S. BEFORE she departs from the airport in BKK.

Well, as a parent I wasn't even thinking about the money aspect (you know they cost of the flight to bring her to the US from Thailand).

As a parent I was thinking about the emotional trauma of the 16 year old daughter being separated from the family when she is refused entry. Even if the airline agrees to provide return flights for the whole family it would be a BIG mess. Besides after 16 - 20 hrs on planes it's nice to be able to repeat that long flight right away, especially if it's free...

As they have a couple of months I think it's irresponsible for the family to not even talk to the US Embassy in Bangkok. Why would any parent play "fast & loose" with their children like this is beyond me. When my kids are involved I check 5 times, get it in writing, make sure I have every possible bit of paperwork I might need (even if the chance is ever so slight), then I make certified copies of the whole shebang and run it by an attorney (who provides their opinion in writing).

Even if the worst case is an appearance before an immigration judge, why would you want to subject your child to that?

Failing to plan is planing to fail but in this case making a conscious decision to stand by an do nothing to improve the chance of success is playing Russian Roulette with the child.

Here the worst case scenario is that the 16 year old is refused entry, her Greencard is confiscated at POE and she is placed on a plane back to Thailand. Even if the chance is only 5% that this is the outcome by doing nothing you're saying that ensuring the safe travel and welfare of the child isn't worth enough to you as a parent to spend some time beforehand ensuring you give her the best possible chance of success.

WHY DO SO MANY PEOPLE THINK ABOUT IMMIGRATION CHIT FIRST AND THE EFFECTS OF THESE DECISIONS ON THE PEOPLE IN THEIR LIVES ONLY AS AN AFTER THOUGHT?

If you're things first as a parent then you'll do everything in your power to ensure the best possible outcome for your child. Money, inconvenience, lost sleep, etc; none of it will matter if she's refused entry. On the other hand, if you've secured the returning resident visa and they just look at her Thai passport & Greencard without caring about the extended absence what have you lost? Nothing that will matter in 5, 10, or 50 years...

Who else sees the new thread in 3 months: My 16 year daughter was refused entry, now what?

Edited April 13, 2010 by Bob 4 Anna

[dvddvd 0]

Bobby,

Thank you for your response.

DVD

[TBoneTX 45,329]

If you're things first as a parent then you'll do everything in your power to ensure the best possible outcome for your child. Money, inconvenience, lost sleep, etc; none of it will matter if she's refused entry.

This entire post deserves five thumbs up and permanent enshrinement in the pantheon of all-time sensible VJ posts, si man.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Thanks for all of the responses.

Based on what I just read at uscis.gov -

If you stay outside of United States for 1 year or more and did not apply for a reentry permit before you left, you may be considered to have abandoned your permanent resident status. If this happens, you may be referred to appear before an immigration judge to decide whether or not you have abandoned your status. If you are in this situation, contact the U.S. consulate about a returning resident visa.

Correct me if I read the above wrong, but it seems like a reentry permit is not required, but the lack of one does open the door to possibly losing status. Somebody is going to have to make that status determination. (at the poe or at the consulate in Thailand)

At this point, I think we are going to chance it. We'll be risking denial either way and think our odds are better if she is standing in the US before they decide. We have a couple more months before we have to make a final decision.

Thanks again.

USCIS issues reentry permits, but CBP are the gatekeepers at the ports of entry. If a returning LPR has been absent for more than a year, and does not have a reentry permit, the CBP will presume they have abandoned their residency. It's up to the LPR to convince the CBP that they have not. The immigrant should be prepared to show proof that they have maintained their residence in the US, that their absence was intended to be less than 1 year (i.e., extraordinary circumstances prevented them from returning), and there is a valid reason why they could not apply for and obtain a returning resident visa at a foreign consulate.

CBP has two options in this case. The first option is they could seize the green card and deny the immigrant entry, which means they'd be placed on a plane back to their home country. The second option is they could admit them temporarily, and refer them to an immigration hearing (what is referred to in the text you quoted from the USCIS web site) to determine if they should be deported. Neither of these would be a pleasant experience for a 16 year old kid.

The stress free solution is to obtain a returning resident visa in Thailand.