I-864 Questions: 401K Assests?

[RitaMay 0]

Starting to look at the I-864 form

A) I make more than the 125% poverty line for me and my wife. The form indicates that I can skip listing most of my assets. They say “Optional” is this truly optional or do I just continue to fill the form out?

B) I filed for an extension on my taxes while I get the W-7 form signed and submitted for my taxes. I will file married this year. Do I use 2009 as my most recent, or do I use 2008? I will send 2009 regardless with the explanation why I filed the extension.

C) Under Assets: Is my 401 K account an asset to list in 26 c?

Thanks for the help group!

[Darnell 8,479]

Are you doing NVC Electronic Processing, or no ? (check yer prior topic, I've left you more info there)

re: taxes - remember - that I-864 is evaluated by a ConOff at the Guangzhou IV unit on Interview Day.

Yer interview day will be past the 15th of April, so they'll be expecting to SEE the TY 2009 tax info.

Even if you file late, it's still a good idea to send in 'what you have'.

This tax year is weird, right? No electronic submission of anything - all goes (all - the 1040, the W-2s, any 1099s, 1098s plus the W-7) to the special W-7 address in Austin, TX.

You can submit with the I-864 a COPY of what you've submitted to the IRS, or ARE ABOUT TO SUBMIT to the IRS.

The I-864 is checked for completeness at NVC - but - the amounts are evaluated on Interview Day at GUZ IV office.

[RitaMay 0]

Looking into the Electronic. May just stick to the mail. Still have some reading to do. My wife has the choose of agent form now in China and is express mailing back. Is this the form that I would scan and submit to trigger the electronic methiod. My wife's a school teacher and wants to see this school year out. Her summer starts in July, so things may time out that the excitement will fall on her break. She wants to see these students through. You can tell she is not an American teacher!

Any thoughts on 401 K as an asset?

[Darnell 8,479]

re: 401K

This is a retirement fund, but - it has a 'cash value'

IF

you cashed out today, with the tax penalty.

It CAN be used as an asset, but it must be at that CASH value - ie - when it's converted to 'cash in hand' - what's it worth?

IIRC, there's a tax penalty for 'cashing out' - I've NO IDEA what the percentage is - but it shouldn't be more than 35 percent (geez, is that even right? )

re: NVC Electronic Processing.

If you get it started for NOW - and wrap up in the middle of May @ NVC - she MIGHT get July interview date. MAYBE.

Check the DS-3032 link in the wiki - download it - EMAIL IT TO HER to fill out on a computer, then print, then sign, then rescan (and) convert to PDF File. SHE would send in the OPT IN Email, not you.

If you are sticking with paper, then you'd be looking (my own estimation) for an interview date between September to December. There's too many variables to be more accurate than that, but there are timeticks that you can predict (study the timeline, specifically YOUR timeline, for the known timeticks on the I-130 )

Good Luck ! The info in the wiki is dense, might take some mapping out using paper and pencil.

Edited April 11, 2010 by Darnell

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

re: 401K

This is a retirement fund, but - it has a 'cash value'

IF

you cashed out today, with the tax penalty.

It CAN be used as an asset, but it must be at that CASH value - ie - when it's converted to 'cash in hand' - what's it worth?

IIRC, there's a tax penalty for 'cashing out' - I've NO IDEA what the percentage is - but it shouldn't be more than 35 percent (geez, is that even right? )

The total penalty is likely to be more than 35%. The money becomes immediately taxable as income. Unless you've saved very little, the taxes alone will probably fall between 30% and 40%. Unless you're over 55 when you cash out, there's also a 10% early withdrawal penalty. This is probably enough to disqualify the 401K as an asset based on the "financial loss" clause of the I-864.

Also, you generally can't cash out a 401K while you're still working at the job providing the 401K for you, though many plans will allow you to borrow against it for some specific purposes. The option to cash out comes when you leave the job. In order to meet the requirement that the asset can be converted to cash within 12 months, you'd have to be willing to quit your job in order to get it. This probably disqualifies the 401K as an asset under the "undue hardship" clause of the I-864.

I think a Roth IRA would be a different story. You can withdraw principal you contributed (but not earnings on investments) at any time, and without any penalty.

I'm not speaking from experience here, but just thinking logically about it. I don't know anyone who has listed a 401K as an asset and had it rejected by a consulate. By the same token, I don't know anyone who has listed a 401K and had the consulate specifically accept it as an asset adequate to offset a shortfall in income.

[kapsig1295 0]

As far as the 401K it should qualify since it is an asset that can be turned into cash within one year. I listed my Roth and they had no problem with it. I do not know what to tell you about the taxes issue. Finally, yes if you make the 125% without the assets it should be fine not list them and skip the area that it tells you to. We used a co-sponsor and he did just that and our packet went through without any issues.

[Darnell 8,479]

Starting to look at the I-864 form

A) I make more than the 125% poverty line for me and my wife. The form indicates that I can skip listing most of my assets. They say “Optional” is this truly optional or do I just continue to fill the form out?

B) I filed for an extension on my taxes while I get the W-7 form signed and submitted for my taxes. I will file married this year. Do I use 2009 as my most recent, or do I use 2008? I will send 2009 regardless with the explanation why I filed the extension.

C) Under Assets: Is my 401 K account an asset to list in 26 c?

Thanks for the help group!

So, what did you decide to do, on the I-864?

[RitaMay 0]

Hi,

I talked to the administer to my 401 K account. He is preparing a paper to say how much of my account will could be drawn under hardship. I will write the amount down on the I-864 as the amount of the hardship. I will also send my last quarterly statement that I received this April.

I did learn one thing. My company has an HSA medical plan (High deductable health Insurance) He says this money is very easily assessable and should be counted. It’s a savings account in my name. He says the money can be used for my wife and I at 100 percent value for Medical, if I needed it for something else I would pay 10 % penalty. He felt that HSA was more of a tangable asset to me than trying to use my 401 K in a hardship condition. I will send the visa group both! ( I will list the HSA as a savings account)

Still working on the form…

[pushbrk 13,174]

Starting to look at the I-864 form

A) I make more than the 125% poverty line for me and my wife.

Just on that statement alone, I would use the I-864EZ instead and simply forget about any assets. They aren't needed.

[EAbbas 213]

I am currently working on our i 864 and it seems we lack just 700 dollars from being sufficient...I also have a 401k which today has 108k in it...obviously if cashed out we would be fine for 3 or 5 years depending on what they look at...i'm just wondering if that will be accepted...could also see a small raise before the need to send this in and that would certainly help as well.

My tax return and income from last year was 1k over the limit but that was because I was working 2 jobs at the time but with my health, diabetes i can't work 7 days a week anymore so i found a job that paid almost as much for 5 days a week.

Any ideas if this will be accepted? Joint sponsor is almost impossible to find as most of you know ;(

[MochiKamo 93]

I am currently working on our i 864 and it seems we lack just 700 dollars from being sufficient...I also have a 401k which today has 108k in it...obviously if cashed out we would be fine for 3 or 5 years depending on what they look at...i'm just wondering if that will be accepted...could also see a small raise before the need to send this in and that would certainly help as well.

My tax return and income from last year was 1k over the limit but that was because I was working 2 jobs at the time but with my health, diabetes i can't work 7 days a week anymore so i found a job that paid almost as much for 5 days a week.

Any ideas if this will be accepted? Joint sponsor is almost impossible to find as most of you know ;(

Even with a rough conservative estimate of getting 50% out of cashing the 401k, you will address the discrepancy very easily.

I wonder if you can figure out your tax rate and also consider the 10% penalty and state that number as your asset.

[EAbbas 213]

Even with a rough conservative estimate of getting 50% out of cashing the 401k, you will address the discrepancy very easily.

I wonder if you can figure out your tax rate and also consider the 10% penalty and state that number as your asset.

Actually yesterday I logged into that account and it has cash out and withdrawel options to look for...so i did and it said to preview this option so I included a 30% pentalty and tax and it said I could get cash for 79k...altho I would be taxed on it the next year...so I printed a copy of this as proof that my account would give me that cash if I had to liquidate... I'm leaving it as it is not cashing out but at least I know what it would be...

[pushbrk 13,174]

Actually yesterday I logged into that account and it has cash out and withdrawel options to look for...so i did and it said to preview this option so I included a 30% pentalty and tax and it said I could get cash for 79k...altho I would be taxed on it the next year...so I printed a copy of this as proof that my account would give me that cash if I had to liquidate... I'm leaving it as it is not cashing out but at least I know what it would be...

Show the full value of the 401k as the asset but include the statement indicating cash out options as part of your evidence. I expect they'll consider you qualified.

Whether joint sponsors are difficult to find depends on who you are and with whom you have close relationships. Many find it very easy indeed, others impossible. No need to generalize. If you don't have a joint sponsor, so be it.