Do I have to love (or just like) the US of A?

[Captain Oates 911]

I dont know why families do that here. It seems that sometimes the other people are jealous of the other person or dont approve of them or the way they are. My own family is one of those families that will tell you yes ok to your face and then as soon as you leave town or walk away it is stab stab stab. And I have noticed that it is not the older generations that do it, like my grandparents, it is my mom and aunts and uncles level. My aunts are bad at this. Really bad at this. Like they didnt make mistakes when they were younger. But we have all heard the stories. They condemned my mom to be the black sheep of the family after years and years of mental and physical abuse by my dad. Then she married again and went through mental with my stepdad. So I am not sure why the americans blame the victims of somethings. They are back wards about so many people. I would have to say this, the next time someone looks down their nose at for being an immigrant, ask them what their ancestry is. I bet there is more then just one country to be listed. Only few can truly say they are true native americans because the us is a blending pot of all cultures. I for one have plenty of ancestry and I call my self the American Mutt. I think the only nationality that is most predominate in me is Swedish an that is only because I can trace that just one generation back to my paternal grandmother. They always say to keep your friends close but your enemies closer. Well who could be closer to you then family. So dont be scared just tell the people you are here with your wife/husband and that if it was a choice you would go back to your home country but at this point in time you can not do that so they will just have to put up with your (nationality) butt. Im straight forward and blunt. I dont go ring around the rosey on any issues.

What makes me laugh is that at the time of the revolution, there were only 2 million people here - yet everyone talks like 'people died for this freedom of speech that nobody else has' as though it was their ancestors that fought.

Anyone here of British isles ancestry is FAR more likely to have had a relative who fought as a Brit against the revolution or lived in Britain and strongly disapproved of what was seen as treason..

Of course they all claim that their ancestors came over on the Mayflower. Tiny ship with 100 million people on it.

As far as the revolution is concerned, only one third were for it (700,000) and one third were against it and were driven out to Canada or Britain, and one third didn't care either way. The whole revolution was 700,000 people - the equivalent of a city in Wisconsin.

So yes, don't let em claim it was all their idea and they own it and should take credit for it - coz that is rubbish.

The truth is that the majority of people came from Italy and Germany and Ireland etc etc 100 years after the revolution and have no connection with English law or traditions or history and no connection with the revolution....

George Washington and Jefferson and Adams were born British the same as me.

So just because somebody's family came from Estonia in 1897 doesn't mean they can claim the revolution as theirs.

I describe myself as a 2nd Nation American because thats what the English were. We were here 200 years before the 3rd Nation Americans.

Don't let anyone look down on you because there are many aspects of the US culture which are 3rd world whether they know it or not - and people from Egypt and Greece and Bosnia and etc etc have cultures which are enormously rich

When they ask me my religion, I spin it on them and say that I am so grateful to come to a land where people of any religion or non is respected as equal. That confuses them something rotten because most of them live lives diametrically opposed to their constitution. When it comes right down to it, their real lives are are odds with the constitution in so many ways. One Example: Cruel and unusual punishment - have you seen American prisons on telly ? The European Union and worrying about extradition to the US because of the inhuman conditions ! People are thrown into concrete chicken cages for life with no chance of review and not protected from prison rape. In the 1st world, prison is punishment because of deprivation of liberty - in the US it is seen as a chance to inflict life long torture as additional punishment. Waterboarding. So many examples

The place is BS central when you get right down to it. Freedom ? Can't buy a Pepsi in CA and rounded up coz you are brown in Arizona. The American people have a weight of laws bearing down on them which is truly massive. Freedom ?

It's all bull - and what happens in Europe is FAR closer to what the US constitution actually says - except you can have a gun here because the place is knee deep in armed criminals - great.

Look at the faces of tourists when they arrive at an American airport from abroad. Huge fat Police loaded down with weapons - all glaring at you and intimidating. That was the case 30 years ago so it's not a 911 thing. I don't think that accords with the high minded ideals of the constitution and all the pursuit of happinesss skipping through the daisies under a clear blue sky.

It's all bull and the reallity doesn't match the rhetoric

Ps I have MONEY so all this doesn't impact me. I have the one and only attribute I need to be able to thrive in America - money. Nobody can beat on me in the employment world because of my race or religion (they do you know), because I don't need to work.

It's great for me here and all the junk just happens to other people for whom I feel sympathy; not just for practical reasons, but because they don't even know they are victims

If I was 26 and poor and thinking of starting a family here and tying myself to this society forever - I wouldn't.

This place is for the winners in the game and not the losers. 'Loser' is a pejorative term here and that speaks volumes.

[LA80 3]

@babyblueangel

Are you sure that you do not have a cousin or something who married a Bosnian? What you described pretty much matches what I have experienced so far. And yes, I get along much better with older generations, those who survived the Great Depression. Unfortunately, it is an endangered species. I adore my husband's grandmother and feel that we would make perfect friends. It is my husband's mom, aunts, uncles and their kids who show the back-stabbing tendencies, and I do not think I will be able to accept that, even if I manage to overcome the culture shock one day. I mean, I will accept that they are like that, but I will not rely on them and expect them to be friendly. They do not have to be. But then again, I am not obliged to go to their family gatherings. I need to be tranquilized to attend one of those anyway.

I do not consider myself poor. Actually, I consider myself quite successful considering all the circumstances - no debt, paying all the bills on time (knocks on the wood), even managed to save some money. Life taught me to be happy with little, and I do not even think I achieved little. I think we are doing great! It is little in their greedy eyes. The concept of "health is your greatest treasure" is nothing new to me. I am not the slave of money and materialism (this sounds so bad, right? ). Now, it will be stupid to say that you do not need money at all, especially in a country like this. But why someone has to have a house where each child will have his/her own bedroom and bathroom, and then struggle to pay an electric bill? Having a vehicle is a necessity here, but can't you just simply see what you can afford and what you cannot afford? The answer I get from them is: "It is my money, I can do it whatever I want with it." Ok, very true (unless you took it from the bank...hehehe), but I do not want to hear even one word about the recession anymore.

[Anna and Ali 13]

Sometimes I feel really selfish that I expect my fiance to come live in the USA with me. I want to spend time each year in Jordan because I absolutely love his culture and his family and want our future children to spend plenty of summers with Grandma and cousins in Jordan. I have student loans, bills, and a really close-knit family, oh and school, so I feel that it isn't feasible for me to move to Jordan within the next two years or so. Ali lived in America when he was a child for a few years and remembers loving it, but I worry that he won't be happy once we settle here. I love being a Rhode Islander and feel that my state has a lot to offer, but it's not Jordan. It's not a big city like Amman. I feel that I have to be a great host and hopefully he will find something intriguing about this country.

I absolutely admit that America can be a lot to swallow. I roll my eyes at all those prideful bumper stickers because its less pride than arrogance in my opinion. You didn't see much of that posturing until after Sept 11th. I agree that I like being here and I have had a great life, but putting signs up on my lawn or bumper stickers on my vehicle don't validate my worth as an American.

I'm sure most of the US citizens here feel the same way, that they want you to be impressed and love it and would feel really terribly if they knew how you felt. I'm sorry that things haven't turned out the way some of you have hoped. I think if Ali doesn't like it here after a while, the right thing to do would be to move with him to Amman for a bit. It has to be a compromise.

Okay, sorry for the long message!

[fozzie 41]

I don't think it matters if you like it, love it or hate the place most of us moved here to be with someone we love. If you are moving here because of the country I would question the motives of your marriage.

There are advantages and disadvantages to living here rather than in the UK but for the most part I avoid those elements that I dislike. I moved here rather than my wife moving to England for several reasons but the main two are the weather (grey skies would depress her) and that I could, in all liklihood, live anywhere and adapt. You make the best of the situation and the place you are in.

NB: I do love New York

Edited September 23, 2010 by fozzie

[ajigglin 0]

I have been reading a few topics where the OP made some comments about disadvantages about living in the US or even becoming a citizen and got some very negative, not to say nasty reactions.

While I'd agree and say you shouldn't even think of Naturalisation if you don't really "feel" it and look more at the disadvantages than anything else, I can't say I don't understand how those OPs feel.

After our wedding and my arrival in the US I often got asked if I was happy to be in the US now. My honest response was that I was happy to be able to be with my husband now. I never said much more but often I was thinking "and no, I am not neccessarly happy to be here!

I did not DISLIKE living in the States but I sure didn't love it. Me being from Germany might look at it from a different point of view, maybe I would be happier in the US if I came from a very poor country or a country where I was opressed or anything like that but other than for my husband I would have never even thought about trying to live in the US.

So, I have to say I am having a hard time to say I love the USA.

I love many things about the country, I love to travel and so I am fascinated by the different sceneries,...I like how people in the US have no problem showing their pride to be american (something, Germans definitley have to catch up on), I like how some things seem to be less complicated but then I see a lot of things that really appall me.

I am aware that I ended up in a pretty shitty part of the country but I can't stop myself from thinking how a lot of things are just better in my homecountry. Now living back home and being able to compare and have my husband confirm many of my thoughts and opinions about things, it's pretty clear to me- I can't say and I am not sure if I will aver be able to say that I love the USA.

Oh, I can already hear some of you guys wanting to tell me to stay in my homecountry and nobody forced me to immigrate. I agree with that though I have to add that we didn't have the choice of him coming to live in Germany, so when we decided to get married, there was no discussion about me moving to the US.

Again, I don't dislike it, I am a very supportive military spouse, I sing the national anthem, I even get goosebumps when I hear it, I can even say I serve the United States being a military wive but

I can't get over the fact that I always feel like a stranger, no matter how hard I tried to get accustomed to my life in America.

Maybe the whole thing of people asking me if I am happy to be here now (many assume I automatically became a citizen upon marrying my hubby- often with a little questionmark in their faces whether that could have been my real motive) is already throwing me off because it often sounds so friggin' ignorant and stupid when people act like ever country OTHER than the United States is a third-world country and everybody HAS to be happy to leave and is given the "chance" of a life in the USA.

I don't want to sound to negative. We are going back to the States next year and I am looking forward to a new challenge, a new chapter in our life but I would be just as happy to go to Japan, Africa or wherever we'd have to go.

Ok, now the beating can begin...lol

Nah, no beating here. I completely understand. There are a lot of great things about the States, but a lot of horrible things as well, same as anywhere else. I think those of us who are well traveled can understand that. You can still have pride in your country and be aware of its dysfunctions.

[ajigglin 0]

My husband is from a third world country and I can attest to the fact that he is not "ecstatic to be here", it just made the most sense for us to be together.

Yeah-that notion that everyone from a third world country is just jumping at the chance to move to the States really pisses me off. It it weren't for the circumstances of our particular situation, it would have been me relocating to Nigeria permanently, not the other way round.

[ajigglin 0]

The U.S. Healthcare system is quite straight forward. If you have a great deal of money or a top notch employer who pays your premium, then you've got the greatest healthcare system in the world. If you however don't fall into that category, it is a sliding scale down to the worst nightmare system. If you don't have insurance, and your combined household income is less than $60k per year (with no dependants), you are one major injury or illness away from filing for bankruptcy. Nevermind, the normal maintenance and preventative care. But I suppose in your neverending spirit of personal responsibility, you'd think that everyone should know what is preventative care and should be taking such measures to ensure that they don't bog down our hospitals and medicare/medicaid.

well said. i work in public health, so i know this all too well.

[ajigglin 0]

I don't think it matters if you like it, love it or hate the place most of us moved here to be with someone we love. If you are moving here because of the country I would question the motives of your marriage.

There are advantages and disadvantages to living here rather than in the UK but for the most part I avoid those elements that I dislike. I moved here rather than my wife moving to England for several reasons but the main two are the weather (grey skies would depress her) and that I could, in all liklihood, live anywhere and adapt. You make the best of the situation and the place you are in.

NB: I do love New York

new york is where it's at.

[zenaxe 22]

I immigrated to Arizona Aug13th. I'm loving it here. I haven't been around much but I've had a very positive experience thus far. The folks down here that I've met and dealt with are normal and wonderful, well except for those tea baggers/republicans hahahaha....but, I'm glad to be here, proud to be here and look forward to many excellent years here with my wife. My family is in Canada and we keep in touch.

So far so good, so put me in the love being here category

[monyfer 27]

As a US citizen who has lived for extensive periods outside the US, I would love to chime in! I've spent time living in both Latin America and Europe when I was in my teens and early twenties. I loved the experiences. I was one of the most unpatriotic Americans ever. I was always the first to agree that the US was not so great, that the politics and war in Iraq were horrible, that our health care system was a nightmare, etc. I was embarrassed by my fellow Americans wearing US flag shirts and chanting US NUMBER ONE. I considered myself completely anti American and a citizen of the world.

However, something shifted in me as I've gotten older. After several years of living in Italy, as much as I loved the laid back culture and everything "European", I began to miss the conveniences of American life. Big super markets with everything imaginable. Ordering things online, from movies to pizza to paying bills. No constant strikes and unreliable bus schedules. Etc. When I moved back to the states, I found myself appreciating the US more than I ever had before, precisely because I had had time TO miss it.

I am currently living in Mexico with my FI. Like I said, I had also lived here for some time in high school, and at the time, loved it. Loved the warm, open people, the relaxed culture, the big family environment. When I moved back here to be with my partner last spring, I fully expected to have the same experience. But my experience this time is completely different. I am miserable here, which is a big part of the reason why I want us to move back to the US. Why?

Mexico is unique in that it is experiencing an all out drug war. I am tired of turning on the news or reading the paper and hearing about half a dozen murders taking place every single day of the week. Tired of being unable to go out by myself. Over 1,000 murders have taken place this year alone in our city. I am tired of walking outside to be hit with 110 degree F temperatures in October. I am tired of paying exorbinant prices for clothing (most of which is imported from the US where it would cost a fraction of the price), same with electronics and household goods. I want my children to be able to go to public schools with all the acoutrements like computers and science labs, which is not possible here. My fiance has an excellent job here in Mexico by Mexican standards, and makes a wonderful living for here, however the exact same job would allow him to earn three times as much in the US. There are no opportunities for me in my career field here, and if I could miraculously find one, it would pay a fraction of what I make in the US.

This is just a sample of reasons, that as I've gotten older, I come to realize are important to me in terms of quality of life issues. I am afraid that my fiance will not like the US because it IS very different from anywhere else. If you get pulled over by a cop, you can't bribe him. Life is much more fast paced here. Things are more by the book. I love it. He might not. He might miss the relaxed go with the flow attitude. He will probably miss warm, open people since people tend to be more closed off and colder in the US. But all things equal, I think we will have infinitely more opportunities in our personal and professional lives and the things we can give to our children here more than in his country. I am not saying he didn't have a good childhood - he did, surrounded by family, and maybe his schools weren't as advanced as mine, or maybe he didn't have as many books to read, but he is proud of what he did have. It's difficult, but like I said, I think all things being equal, the US is our best choice for ourselves and our future family at this point.

Edited October 1, 2010 by monyfer

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

Excellent post. Thank you for that.

Yet . . . Southern California, especially the area of San Diego and Escondido, is as different from Philadelphia as it gets. If you suspect your fiance might not like it way up north, why not moving to SoCal?

[monyfer 27]

Excellent post. Thank you for that.

Yet . . . Southern California, especially the area of San Diego and Escondido, is as different from Philadelphia as it gets. If you suspect your fiance might not like it way up north, why not moving to SoCal?

Actually, I always tell my fiance I would be totally open to moving to California in the future think I since it would be a perfect blend for both of us of the American things I love plus a little more of the Mexican feel he loves. I have my family and work in Philly so we might start off there but in the future, definitely, I would love to live in Cali!

[fozzie 41]

After several years of living in Italy, as much as I loved the laid back culture and everything "European", I began to miss the conveniences of American life. Big super markets with everything imaginable. Ordering things online, from movies to pizza to paying bills. No constant strikes and unreliable bus schedules. Etc. When I moved back to the states, I found myself appreciating the US more than I ever had before, precisely because I had had time TO miss it.

/quote]

Do not confuse Italy with Europe. Yes they are in Europe but each country is very unique. I have had the experiences in parts of Europe where they strike a lot and things seem less convenient but there are many countries in Europe that have super reliable public transport, t'internet (yes they have the ability to pay bills online and order pizza too), big supermarkets etc. Many people assume Europe is one culture and one system but its far different in reality.