Do I have to love (or just like) the US of A?

[Gemmie 142]

I absolutely hate when people ask "how do you like America?" I can't lie, even if I try, and the times I have tried to, I just end up having a long pause, nodding my head and saying "hmm. It's nice" - entirely unconvincing. Because the truth is, I feel that people will be offended if I say anything other than "it's GREAT". England will always be better in my mind, for the simple fast that it has my family, best friends, memories... and of course polices that I prefer.

I feel like I can't turn around without having commercials/advertising, American flags, lawsuit preventions, Christianity, and fast-food thrown in my face. I really hate the health care system, and I hate how Americans frequently talk about the Canadian/UK system as if it's managed by a bunch of evil, incompetent kids (I would rather have my "socialist" system any day)! In fact one time a bunch of my MIL's friends were discussing the health care reform (they're all right-wing) and I chipped in with my opinion that I think Americans will be pleasantly surprised at how well it works, and how much more money will be in their pockets - and I was promptly told that I'm not allowed to think and that everything that now happens to the US is MY FAULT. True story. I told him that in a country that preaches about freedom of speech, I'll say what I like. I hate the general feeling that all immigrants should instantly love America and should feel grateful for the opportunity. Of course I'm happy to be here after a long immigration process but only because I want to be with my husband, not because I've achieved a higher standard of life. I hate that America talks about their freedom as if they're the only Western country that has this. In fact, I had more freedom in the UK (not just legal ages for things - just the social rules in general about what can be said, heard, done) and that goes for most of Western Europe.

On the other hand, I like that driving a car is so easy over here. I've managed to learn in a matter of days/weeks and it takes about 6 months to learn in my country. I like that the summer actually has heat and sunshine, and that food costs are cheaper. I used to spend double in England on food shopping and it wouldn't last as long. I like that living costs are lower - the gas prices are so cheap (compared to our $13 per gallon in the UK) and the rent is significantly lower too. My housemates and I paid a total of $1560 a month for a tiny flat without a living room or proper bathroom. Here in MA (the most expensive state to live in I've been told), me and my husband can rent a gorgeous spacious apartment for $1025 a month and it comes with some utilities paid. I like how people that work in customer service are friendlier, and how small talk seems mandatory - in England, retailers and waitresses generally don't converse with you. I'm working to become a psychologist or at least a psychology research fellow, and I'm lucky enough to have moved to what I deem the psychology capital! There's Harvard (where I might end up working) and some of the best doctors here. I also like that sometimes being a "foreigner" has its benefits. It's always a conversation starter, and some people tell me that the accent gets me things because Americans like the British and want to make a good impression.

All in all, I LIKE living in America. It's a change of culture for me, even though England isn't completely different. There are worse places I could live. And even if we end up moving back in a few years (we don't have plans yet), I still wouldn't regret my time in America as it's an experience I can say I've tried.

Edited April 7, 2010 by Gemmie

[Mononoke28 135]

I don't understand why you feel like you have to either love or like the US just because you're living here? It doesn't make sense to be "forced" into liking a place you didn't grow up in. I would feel the same way if I had ended up in England, Canada, Australia, Germany or even Colombia. I grew up in the US and that's where I feel most comfortable and happiest. It's all about where you grow up and the people who grew up with you. It doesn't have to be another country, it could be a city, a state, or even a neighborhood. I personally don't know what the big deal about Texas is. I think it's boring, plain, and way too hot. But most people from Texas would argue with you until their faces turn blue saying that it's the best state in the US. I disagree.

So, it doesn't matter what you think, it's a natural human emotion to miss the place you grew up in and to think nothing compares to it while other people have a different opinion about it.

Diana

[Nik+Heather 121]

I'm the USC.

All throughout my life I have been instructed to be thankful that I was born here and that I am so lucky to be a citizen of this country. My grandparents were born here, so it's not like I'm the daughter of some immigrants who worked their whole lives to come here, either. So, that's what you're battling. Don't get me wrong, I know that I have had a lot of good opportunities, and I wouldn't want to trade my life for a lot of people in the world, but I also think that there are some other really nice places to live as well and perfectly acceptable.

I also once posted something in the citizenship forum about how there could be "other motives" for going for naturalization besides just loving the US and fulfilling some lifelong dream. Not having to deal with US immigration again was just one of them. I got some pretty heated responses as well, and I was surprised, what with this being a family immigration site you would think (or at least hope) that most of the motives for coming to the US and wanting to stay hassle free would be more about love of spouse than love of USA.

[Rob and Jill 82]

I couldn't believe how many people ask "do you feel lucky to be here?" and other such things. I'm lucky to be with my husband yes of course... I don't know how to respond half the time... "No. The US sucks" I'm sure would get just as strong a reaction as if I said "oh yes, Australia sucks" in the presence of other Aussies. I really need to come up with some sarcastic reply...

Why do you need a sarcastic reply? I've found that when someone asks me a question I find extremely rude, I just look at them and say "why would you ask me that?" and patiently wait for an answer. Sometimes I think Americans are just nosey and/or ignorant and don't think before they speak. Perhaps it is because they grew up in a town where people all looked/acted/thought alike. I was lucky enough to grow up in a town where there was a Military Base, so I was diversed in A LOT of different cultures, however, not everyone is or has that kind of a childhood basis. Don't automatically, take offense. Ask why...then get mad if they give you a stupid answer.

[Gemmie 142]

I could never say "why would you ask me that?" I don't know why, it's just not in my nature. If I find a question really uncomfortable, I usually just say "it's just different" or something short and to the point. Luckily I've never been asked which country I prefer, because I would have to say England, and I'm sure that would cause offense.

[besaangel 18]

you are free to leave though, if you don't want to pay taxes then go live in a third world country like somalia or the philippines and you won't have to, the point is you get nothing for free weather it be freedom or rights, if you think you don't enjoy freedom in the US try spending some time in north korea or myanmar I assure you you'll have a differant perspective

Bob you are wise beyond your years

And of course you improperly read my post. I never said I didnt wanna pay taxes; i was trying to prove a point in the way people make this country seem like gold with bunnies running around in this free nation. UGH. Anyways, its your opinion and just that, an opinion.

That's how I feel and that's probably a major reason why I am having a hard time to fully embrace immigrating to the US. I have met and spoken to so many americans that try to tell me how great their country is, about the opportunities, the freedon, all the rights, about how great and superior the United States are and how lucky I am to have the privilege to be living here.

I usually ask them if they have ever lived outside the US and most of them haven't and I'm just thinking "geez, folks, you don't even know how regulated and restricted life in the US is compared to other countries."

Now, whether more or less rules make sense, are needed,...is probably very much arguable and depends on the country.

My husband for example LOVES driving on the german Autobahn, no speedlimit and if there is a speedlimit, it's still much faster than on any american highway or Interstate. He always jokes that they couldn't do that in the States because people don't undergo the extensive drivers training we have to do here.

So I guess some freedoms come with a price and rules that work for one country can't work for others. So I am not even going there.

Another topic I had looong, more or less serious discussions about is the fact that the US is very much dominating in international sports. Let's take the Olympics: Of course the USA wins the most medals. They are participating in about every possible discipline imaginable, have more starters and thinking about the huuge population of the US, isn't it just logical that there are more great athletes TOTAL (not per number of people) than most of the other nations have?

I mean, if I compare the total of medals won between the USA and Germany and compare how much smaller Germany is/how smaller the population is, Germany won far more medals.

Not trying to be childish here, it just ticks me off to listen to people glorifying something that put in relation, really isn't all that much....JMHO.

MY POINT EXACTLY...

[Blitz 3]

The healthcare here scares the hell out of me. I'm constantly worrying what will happen if we get sick. I'm used to going to the doctor whenever I want, and not having to pay for anything and not worrying about being declined payment by the insurance agency for a most basic test. One thing I don't like at all is that a lot of Americans think that Canadian healthcare is the worst and they put it down, but the thing is they have no idea what it's like. There are also other aspects of Canada that are being looked down upon and I'm not impressed with that.

Amen!!! The US health care scares the ####### out of me and makes me so angry!!! It's not only super complicated, outrageously expensive, but also extremely discriminating. It's just wrong for companies to make millions at the expense of people's lives - even with the new reform, it's still wrong IMO. And all the fight over the reform is based on so many lies and misleading info - the politics of FEAR are so prominent in the US.

I am sooooooooooooo sick of hearing all the ####### that the right-wingers down here in the US say about Canadian health care!!! It makes me MAD! And I wonder where on earth they get the right to spread LIES on national TV with their stupid commercials!?

Sure, Canada's system is not perfect. Sure, there have been some people who come here to the US for treatments (although in many cases, it is still paid for by the province, or it's an experimental procedure not yet approved/available in Canada). Sure, there are longer wait times in some cases (although my husband waited 6 weeks in the US just to find out that his insurance company would not cover his MRI - and it would cost $1,400 - whereas our friend in Canada paid for an MRI for only $500 and had it the next day). But Canada still spends far less per capita on health care, yet has higher life expectancies, and equal or better survival rates for many diseases. Not to mention, 60% of bankrupcies in the US are due to health care bills, and I assume that number is 0% in Canada.

But what REALLY ticks me off are how grossely they exaggerate ####### about Canada's health care - like ####### Cheney's idiot daughter saying that Canadians can't choose their own doctor, that the gov't tells us who our doctor will be. Like WTH??? If doctors are accepting new patients, they will see you. When we were looking for a doctor accepting new patients in a small Alberta town we found one much easier than my husband did in a much larger US city. And, actually, you can't just go to any doctor in the US anyhow if they don't accept your insurance, etc.

It also drives me NUTS how people in the US throw around the world Socialism.... I guarantee so many of them don't even know what that means. The US is so far from a socialist country, it's a joke that people even say that. And then they talk about not wanting to be socialist like Europe...as if Europe has a horrible quality of life. Like do thees people even own a passport? Have they ever even left the US? Western Europe has a much smaller gap between rich and poor than the US.

You will be hard pressed to find anyone who has LIVED in both countries and experienced the "downfalls" of both systems first-hand who would take the US system over the Canadian system (or prob any other industrialized world's system for that matter).

I don't understand how so many Americans can consider themselves PRO-LIFE when it comes to abortion, but in the next breath, agree with the politicians who say health care is a PRIVLEDGE, not a right for all citizens. Pure hypocracy IMO.

The US has some of the world's best doctors, hospitals, and medical technology, but what does it matter if so many people can't afford it?

I LOVE so many things about the US, but I agree - I would NEVER even consider immigrating here if I hadn't married an American. I might've become a snow-bird to spend my winters in a warm state, but that's it. And my American husband would GLADLY spend the rest of his life in Canada if it was a much warmer climate. My USC husband loves Canada more than I do, in fact.

I love my American family and friends too, but just get sick of the attitude that the US is the only country worth living in in the world. It's a great country, but not necessarily the greatest on earth. And I get so sick of the politics of FEAR down here.

OK, end of rant. But to answer the question, no, I don't think you have to "love" the US to be an immigrant here. You just have to be a good, honourable citizen who contributes positively to the community and country.

[Blitz 3]

EmVee,

you make some good points, and being bashed by the ignorant is part of the process.

Me, personally, I love capitalism, and I hate socialism. I love to make money, and I hate when the Government wants to take it away from me. I love freedom and I hate when the Government wants to restrict it.

But these are just phrases, empty in substance if applied maliciously and without appropriate context.

Does a capitalist want to be sick? Does he want to be dumped by his health care corporation once he gets sick? Does he wants to keep all of his earned money at the expense that his children don't get an education? Does he want his freedom go so far that everybody is free to wear guns again in daily live, like in the Wild West?

The problem is, people don't know better. I lived in 7 (or was it 8?) countries (including India for 6 months) and visited 32. I've seen and experienced quite a bit in the 52 years I'm on this Earth now, and I know very little still.

I want as much freedom as possible, and I want to keep as much money as possible, make no mistake about it. But the qualifier "possible" is the key here. I gladly pay a few hundred bucks of my money if I don't have to fear getting sick and wiped out financially because of it. I gladly pay a few hundred bucks a month so that my children can get a quality education without a $100,000 student loan. I gladly pay a hundred bucks a month so that we have a police force. And I gladly pay the 15.7% of my gross income so that I have Medicare when I'm too old to work.

People mix up socialism with social. "Public" is probably even a better term than social.

I'd embrace public (as opposed to private) police, roads, healthcare, and education. And I embrace public programs like Medicare and Medicaid. I feel it's a moral obligation of a country, and a rich one at that, to take care of its citizens' basic needs: health, security, shelter, and nourishment. Does a CEO have to make $40,000,000 a year, if in his city there are 100 veterans homeless and hungry? Or would 4,000,000 a year be enough for him, and the 36,000,000 should be distributed to the country's and citizens' cause?

It's never a all or nothing issue. It's a balance of personal freedom and public necessities that simply make sense to anybody but the dumbest of the dumb.

And. just for kicks to all those "freedom" guys: in Germany, I can drink my beer anywhere, don't have to hide behind a fence. I can take my cute little dog with me into the restaurant. I can have sex with my 16 year-old girlfriend without becoming a felon and sex offender. In Sweden, I can drink and drive, as long as I'm not over the legal limit of 0.08%. And in the Netherlands, I can smoke pot. So much for the unlimited freedom in America.

BRAVO! Bob, that is one of the best posts I have EVER read!!! SOOOOO TRUE!

[Ladylethal 12]

I'll probably be living in the US per say pretty soon now that Luis is in the Air Force, but in these 3+ years that I left my country I've been living in Puerto Rico. I get asked all the time if I love it here and if my country is better. My answer is always the same "It's different, there are some good things, but I miss my country everyday". I am positive my thoughts will be the same about US, as I've lived there as a student during an exchange program in my teen years. From the beginning I knew I'd never feel "happier" here than in Brasil, and I'll always feel and be Brazilian. Luis and I already know that given the choice and opportunity in the future we'll move back there and retire there for sure.

[TracyTN 237]

I could never say "why would you ask me that?" I don't know why, it's just not in my nature. If I find a question really uncomfortable, I usually just say "it's just different" or something short and to the point. Luckily I've never been asked which country I prefer, because I would have to say England, and I'm sure that would cause offense.

I'm not offended if someone tells me that they prefer their home country to the US.

I think you live around some TOUCHY people!

[Mrs.J06 4]

And I get so sick of the politics of FEAR down here.

OK, end of rant. But to answer the question, no, I don't think you have to "love" the US to be an immigrant here. You just have to be a good, honourable citizen who contributes positively to the community and country.

AMEN to that!!!

[woki1986 1]

The healthcare here scares the hell out of me. I'm constantly worrying what will happen if we get sick. I'm used to going to the doctor whenever I want, and not having to pay for anything and not worrying about being declined payment by the insurance agency for a most basic test. One thing I don't like at all is that a lot of Americans think that Canadian healthcare is the worst and they put it down, but the thing is they have no idea what it's like. There are also other aspects of Canada that are being looked down upon and I'm not impressed with that.

Imagine how we felt in the UK having our healthcare system bashed when the US doesn't even have a public national health service.

I'm worried about being ill. I also don't like how some people (Some, not ALL, some) view the US as being 'the best country in the world', when as people have said, they might not have even been to the places they critisize.

I haven't escaped the 'poverty' or 'world hunger' or any of that. I've made a conscious decision to emigrate to the USA to be with my fiance. Not because of shame of my own country or the need to be in 'the best country in the world'.

People went to the US from all over the world to start new lives. What, realistically, makes their descendants 'better than everyone else just because they are American'?

What makes the USA the place I want to be is because my Fiancee is there and I want to be with her. If she wasn't there, I wouldn't be going there.

All of my family is in the UK and it was where I was born and raised. I'm not turning my back on my own country. (Even if it is going to the dogs right now.)

For your attention, Europe is a continent not a country. Countries make up the European Union and 'Europe' as a whole. It's not a giant country Like I am from England or the UK. I don't see myself as being 'European.'

I'm expecting to be stoned (to death) upon POE by you lot...

[woki1986 1]

Side note - i explained the process for AOS in detail to my FIL tonight because he asked a qn that made it seem like i should just send off a form (ignorance, not being mean) and *poof* there's my GC. I explained the hoops we need to jump through, the paperwork we need to complete, the regulations and requirements, not to mention the fees.. he was honestly shocked about it all. If it was as simple as a little piece of paper i'd've done it the day after I got married.. after the breakfast in bed of course

Yes. Exactly. If more people knew just what this all involved, they'd be more understanding of how hard it is to go through each and every hoop. How frustrating and agonising the waiting is. But also on the flipside, how satisfying the 'green light' is, when you know you can do what you've been waiting for, for. (Be with the person you love.)

I think that the only people who really know what it's like are the people on this board and everyone else elsewhere who's gone through/going through this process. Family and friends know a little bit by association but they don't know just what it's like. As you said, your FIL didn't know exactly how tough it all is.

I also believe that it gives your relationship more 'weight'. Not that any other relationship isn't special, but it shows what lengths you are willing to go through just to be in the same place as your other half. (You'd wait for months or years and pay a fortune and move countries, giving up your job, possessions and your way of life to be with the one you love.) And that is truly priceless. I'd do it again. Not the heartache, though.

When people know what you've gone through to be together...

We feel that what we have is special, as I'm sure everybody else does about their own relationships, and it feels like your relationship is stronger when you finally get there.

[woki1986 1]

Oh and Arya, the continent bit wasn't aimed at yourself, I just sort of replied to a lot of all the other threads in one go.

[Fandango 1,439]

"The USA" is really a bit off topic. Do you love Europe?

I love California, first and foremost because of the weather. After trying Florida on and off for 5 years, I moved to Southern California, because the weather is perfect here, all year round. I'd love to live in Santa Barbara, but I can't afford it, so I moved 30 minutes south, to San Buenaventura. Love it!

The two "other" two places I'd like to live is Monaco, which is even more expensive, and the South of France, which is actually still a candidate for retirement.

So do I love the USA? I don't know . . . yes, some things I love about it, quite a few, actually, but others I absolutely dislike, such as the healthcare system ($160 a month? Try $20,000 a year!), and the stupidity of so many uneducated people.

Do I love Europe? Well, I love parts of it, whereas other parts I don't like at all. I couldn't live in North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, Wyoming, Belgium, Yugoslavia (I know), or Eastern Europe in general. If I had to, I would ask the Almighty to strike me down.

So I guess I love to live in a nice place, where the weather is nice, and nice people live. It happens to be in the USA, whereas my other two nice places happen to be in Europe.

Therefore, your question "do I have to LOVE the USA?" gets an "INVALID question" response from me, a question that really can't be answered. I love my wife though!

I would assume you LOVE the US considering you illegally overstayed your B1/2 visa for about 12 years *shrug*