Comparison of attacks on pope to anti-Semitism sparks outrage

[scandal 951]

http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1160725.html

Comparison of attacks on pope to anti-Semitism sparks outrage

By Reuters

Jewish groups around the world have reacted with shock after Pope Benedict's personal preacher compared attacks on the Catholic Church and pope over a sexual abuse scandal to "collective violence" against Jews.

"I am absolutely totally astounded by this. This is folly," said Amos Luzzatto, a former president of Italy's Jewish communities.

Rome's Chief Rabbi Riccardo Di Segni, who welcomed the pope in the capital's synagogue last January said: "This is really in bad taste."

The pope's personal preacher, Father Raniero Cantalamessa, in a Friday sermon in St Peter's Basilica, said attacks on the Catholic Church and the pope over a sexual abuse scandal were comparable to "collective violence" against Jews.

Jewish leaders around the world used words like repugnant, obscene and offensive to describe the sermon, particularly, as Di Segni noted, it came on the day that for centuries Christians prayed for the conversion of the Jews, who were held collectively responsible for Jesus' death.

"How can you compare the collective guilt assigned to the Jews which caused the deaths of tens of millions of innocent people to perpetrators who abuse their faith and their calling by sexually abusing children?" said Rabbi Marvin Hier of the Simon Wiesenthal Center, the international Jewish rights group.

Cantalamessa, speaking with the pope sitting nearby, said Jews throughout history had been the victims of "collective violence" and drew comparisons between Jewish suffering and attacks on the Church.

"The use of stereotypes, the shifting of personal responsibility and guilt to a collective guilt remind me of the most shameful aspects of anti-Semitism," Cantalamessa quoted from the letter.

A Vatican spokesman said the comparison "is absolutely not the line of the Vatican and of the Catholic Church."

This week's celebrations leading up to Easter Sunday have been clouded by accusations the Church in several countries mishandled and covered up episodes of sexual abuse of children by priests, some dating back decades.

Shaken by the crisis, the Vatican has accused the media of an "ignoble" attempt to smear the pope. Some reports have accused him of negligence in handling abuse cases in previous roles as a cardinal in his native Germany and in Rome.

Victims of sexual abuse also criticized Cantalamessa.

"This ridiculous attempt to hide the crimes of the [Church] hierarchy inside of Jewish suffering shows just how far this Pope seems willing to go to stop the truth from emerging," said Peter Isely, a spokesman for the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests (SNAP).

The Vatican has denied any cover-up over the abuse of 200 deaf boys in the United States by Reverend Lawrence Murphy from 1950 to 1974. The New York Times reported the Vatican and Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict, were warned about Murphy but he was not defrocked.

The spiritual head of the Anglican Church, Archbishop Rowan Williams, said on Saturday the Catholic Church in Ireland had lost all its credibility over its response to the sex abuse scandals after an apology by the pope abuse in Ireland that disappointed victims.

[Nagishkaw 510]

Father Raniero Cantalamessa......the False Prophet??

[scandal 951]

I think those persecuted in the Holocaust should not be dragged into this current scandal surrounding the Church. The suffering of the Holocaust stands apart in its magnitude and has nothing whatsoever to do pedophilic priests. It's audacious for anyone to try to make such a connection.

I think the abuse of kids by those charged with their well-being: be they parents, teachers, soccer coaches, or priests is among the worst breaches of trust conceivable. Taking advantage of young kids who place their trust in adults is so morally ugly it defies description.

There have been repeated and ongoing scandals in the Catholic priesthood over the decades. Canada, in particularly Newfoundland, went through a priest abuse scandal in the 1980s and 90s. US diocese similarly were rocked by such abuses over the past decade. There have been similar scandals in Australia, Ireland, and other nations. What's amazing is that it has taken this long for these scandals to penetrate to the Vatican and the Pope himself. And still they shroud themselves in denial.

The Catholic priesthood, so long as it insists upon celibacy rules, is never going to shed itself of this problem. I'm sure most priests are good people and serve their communities nobly. I'm sure the vast majority of them are able to control the natural bodily urges for sex, and maintain their celibacy. However inevitably there will be some who can't control it and need an outlet. The right thing for them to do is to get counseling or leave the priesthood or some other appropriate action. The wrong thing is for them to unleash their sexual needs on the young and vulnerable charges in their care. Some people will do wrong and bad things - that is life, and that includes priests. But when the Church creates conditions that foster the temptation (celibacy) and then actively covers up the resulting crimes - this is a fault in the Church itself, not just with the individual priests.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

What's amazing is that it has taken this long for these scandals to penetrate to the ... Pope himself.

[Nagishkaw 510]

There have been repeated and ongoing scandals in the Catholic priesthood over the decades. Canada, in particularly Newfoundland, went through a priest abuse scandal in the 1980s and 90s. US diocese similarly were rocked by such abuses over the past decade.

The Boys of St. Vincent ?

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

I think those persecuted in the Holocaust should not be dragged into this current scandal surrounding the Church. The suffering of the Holocaust stands apart in its magnitude and has nothing whatsoever to do pedophilic priests. It's audacious for anyone to try to make such a connection.

I think the abuse of kids by those charged with their well-being: be they parents, teachers, soccer coaches, or priests is among the worst breaches of trust conceivable. Taking advantage of young kids who place their trust in adults is so morally ugly it defies description.

There have been repeated and ongoing scandals in the Catholic priesthood over the decades. Canada, in particularly Newfoundland, went through a priest abuse scandal in the 1980s and 90s. US diocese similarly were rocked by such abuses over the past decade. There have been similar scandals in Australia, Ireland, and other nations. What's amazing is that it has taken this long for these scandals to penetrate to the Vatican and the Pope himself. And still they shroud themselves in denial.

The Catholic priesthood, so long as it insists upon celibacy rules, is never going to shed itself of this problem. I'm sure most priests are good people and serve their communities nobly. I'm sure the vast majority of them are able to control the natural bodily urges for sex, and maintain their celibacy. However inevitably there will be some who can't control it and need an outlet. The right thing for them to do is to get counseling or leave the priesthood or some other appropriate action. The wrong thing is for them to unleash their sexual needs on the young and vulnerable charges in their care. Some people will do wrong and bad things - that is life, and that includes priests. But when the Church creates conditions that foster the temptation (celibacy) and then actively covers up the resulting crimes - this is a fault in the Church itself, not just with the individual priests.

The persecution of Jews, certainly didn't start with the Holocaust. It irks me when people just look to that one event and think everything was kewl before that, but I digress. Did I miss something? Being a priest is a huge undertaking, but not everyone who becomes one, should be one. The vast majority are good, but they have to police that bad ones and not just ship them away. The Mount Cashel orphanage tragedy (that's what it was) still sickens me. I still remember that movie The Boys of St. Vincent and that famous line when one of the kids is being attacked, "no Bro, no Bro."

[scandal 951]

The Boys of St. Vincent ?

Mt. Cashel, Newfoundland. This scandal was front-page news in Canada a decade before similar scandals were reported in the US in the late 90s/early 00s.

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

Am I the only one that sees the insanity of comparing the persecution (I'm being very kind here) of Jews, especially by the last incarnation of the Romans, to the abuse of children by Roman Catholic priests. I'm not a well man, so I'm not going to lose my temper but this is insane. :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

[Nagishkaw 510]

No, you are not the only one.

[scandal 951]

Am I the only one that sees the insanity of comparing the persecution (I'm being very kind here) of Jews, especially by the last incarnation of the Romans, to the abuse of children by Roman Catholic priests. I'm not a well man, so I'm not going to lose my temper but this is insane. :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

You are not the only one. Many have already reacted and responded just as you did.

I'd like to see the Vatican officially respond in the same forceful way (so far all they did was to call Cantalamessa's remarks his personal views and not reflective of the Church).

And no, you're not a well man. You're a hawt-bodied woman, remember?

[Danno 1,228]

I think those persecuted in the Holocaust should not be dragged into this current scandal surrounding the Church. The suffering of the Holocaust stands apart in its magnitude and has nothing whatsoever to do pedophilic priests. It's audacious for anyone to try to make such a connection.

I think the abuse of kids by those charged with their well-being: be they parents, teachers, soccer coaches, or priests is among the worst breaches of trust conceivable. Taking advantage of young kids who place their trust in adults is so morally ugly it defies description.

There have been repeated and ongoing scandals in the Catholic priesthood over the decades. Canada, in particularly Newfoundland, went through a priest abuse scandal in the 1980s and 90s. US diocese similarly were rocked by such abuses over the past decade. There have been similar scandals in Australia, Ireland, and other nations. What's amazing is that it has taken this long for these scandals to penetrate to the Vatican and the Pope himself. And still they shroud themselves in denial.

The Catholic priesthood, so long as it insists upon celibacy rules, is never going to shed itself of this problem. I'm sure most priests are good people and serve their communities nobly. I'm sure the vast majority of them are able to control the natural bodily urges for sex, and maintain their celibacy. However inevitably there will be some who can't control it and need an outlet. The right thing for them to do is to get counseling or leave the priesthood or some other appropriate action. The wrong thing is for them to unleash their sexual needs on the young and vulnerable charges in their care. Some people will do wrong and bad things - that is life, and that includes priests. But when the Church creates conditions that foster the temptation (celibacy) and then actively covers up the resulting crimes - this is a fault in the Church itself, not just with the individual priests.

IT's not quit so simple.

THe vast majority of victims of the errant Priests have been males, teenage boys or young men, not females... why is that? If celibacy is the problem why are not more girls or young women counted among victims?

The constant reference to pedophilia is made but, sex with teens is not really pedophilia is it?

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

You are not the only one. Many have already reacted and responded just as you did.

I'd like to see the Vatican officially respond in the same forceful way (so far all they did was to call Cantalamessa's remarks his personal views and not reflective of the Church).

And no, you're not a well man. You're a hawt-bodied woman, remember?

Yes, yes I am. I was wondering why I was having so much trouble finding my #######. I looked for it everywhere but hadn't had any luck.

BTW, you forgot to mention my perfect breasts. :devil:

[alienlovechild 75]

Am I the only one that sees the insanity of comparing the persecution (I'm being very kind here) of Jews, especially by the last incarnation of the Romans, to the abuse of children by Roman Catholic priests. I'm not a well man, so I'm not going to lose my temper but this is insane. :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

Who are you arguing with?

I wouldn't get too fired up unless you believe most people will side with pedophile priests vs. anyone else based on a single speech.

[scandal 951]

IT's not quit so simple.

THe vast majority of victims of the errant Priests have been males, teenage boys or young men, not females... why is that? If celibacy is the problem why are not more girls or young women counted among victims?

The constant reference to pedophilia is made but, sex with teens is not really pedophilia is it?

I think the answer to your first question (why males, not females) I think is simply a matter of access. Prison inmates often resort to homosexual sex while in lockup, despite the fact that they are straight on the outside. They're not gay, but if the only choice is celibacy or buggering their (male) cellmate - that's what they do. Similarly, priests typically have more access to altar boys and to male students in their care. Girls are more usually cared for and taught by nuns. So it's a simple matter of access.

Regarding the latter (sex with teens) - if the teen is underage, then yes it may well be classified pedophilia. And it is certainly statutory rape if underage. Also, many of the victims have been younger than teens - often as young as 8 or 9.

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

Who are you arguing with?

I wouldn't get too fired up unless you believe most people will side with pedophile priests vs. anyone else based on a single speech.

These are people in power and people will tend to side with the priesthood since the clergy hold a very unique place in the believers' world. They must be held to a higher standard not only by the Vatican by every Catholic. I am underwhelmed by your response. Unlike you, I am fired up, but you are entitled to your opinion.