US v EU

[Dan T 8]

Im very curious to see the opinions of you data mining freakazoids on this, and a little freightened, but I think its an appropriate question to pose to Americans that have married a European spouse and chose to live in the US.

With countries like greece, portugal, and ireland just to name a few, on the brink of collapse for many varied reasons, do we then take better steps to seperate ourselves completely from the economic/cultural policies taken in those countries or do we continue our march towards their style of socialism with a mindset of "we can do it better". Now I know we are nowhere near iron-curtain flavored socialism but I do think we are well on our way on a slow but steady march towards at least the oppressive, though democratic, style that is practiced in sweden. I am going to serve pretty much as an observer on this because to be honest its a question way over my head, but I hope you guys dont take that as a reason not to participate in the discussion.

for me I only really need to look at 2 stats to convince me that free markets are better. 1 is we have the most billionaires of any country and 2 that the living standards of poor people in america today are equal to that of middle class people in the 50's.

(of course you could argue that our markets havent been free either because of government over-reach in the case of well the list is endless really but most notably this most recent health care bill and community redevelopment act(I could be wrong on the name, but I am pretty sure there was a law passed under clinton that made it illegal for banks to consider the likelyhood of whether a property would increase or decrease when issuing a loan), or under-reach in the case of anti-trust laws, glass-spiegle(sp), too-big-to-fail, and immigration enforcement.) Im not going to take much notice of you if you choose to simply attack me and not respond to the question with your own set of facts.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

There are so many levels of debate that could go on for the different countries/markets in the EU vs. the US and the regulatory systems in place.

The only thing I can account for in the market of the United States and our failures in recent years is indeed the combining of the credit market and the banking industry. Though it was still regulated well to an extent.

The thing that killed and why it became an issue that they were combined was the UNREGULATED derivatives market. You literally had an off-the-books industry which added up to an estimated well over $50 trillion that allowed people to bid on the way a loan would go (positive or negative). That's the simple way of stating it.

You created a situation where things great exponentially and they were great there for awhile and people were making crazy money off playing the entire country's economy like they were playing the vegas slots. Just like any casino game though, your luck will eventually run out and your winnings will be wiped away from you much quicker than your gains came...

It's a bit more detailed than that, but if you want to compare the EU to the US in the factor of the past while, it was never stupid enough in recent times to let something like that take place and would have never let a piece of the economy; especially something underground that could be devasting; run out of control like that.

Short answer as it would take much more thinking/explanation to go into it more as it's a ###### of a thing that happened, but yeah....

[Dan T 8]

The thing that killed and why it became an issue that they were combined was the UNREGULATED derivatives market. You literally had an off-the-books industry which added up to an estimated well over $50 trillion that allowed people to bid on the way a loan would go (positive or negative). That's the simple way of stating it.

i think the credit default swap is a horrible piece of capitalism that should be squashed, and its also retarded to let a bank be an insurance company, same as the S&L scandal from what I can tell. But still isnt here better than there?

[mawilson 2,133]

With countries like greece, portugal, and ireland just to name a few, on the brink of collapse for many varied reasons

The US is not exactly in a position to give fiscal responsibility lectures.

Our own fiscal policies are irresponsible and a threat to global economic

stability. They are, in fact, much worse than Greece's; the only difference is,

we can print our own money and they can't.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

The US should emulate Australia. Why waste our time with Europe. If we want to be the best, we have to go after the best.

[Dan T 8]

The US should emulate Australia. Why waste our time with Europe. If we want to be the best, we have to go after the best.

oh yeah with their mandate to use mercury filled cfl bulbs and roof insulation mandate that caused houses to burn down and electricute people. fantastic model.

The US is not exactly in a position to give fiscal responsibility lectures.

Our own fiscal policies are irresponsible and a threat to global economic

stability. They are, in fact, much worse than Greece's; the only difference is,

we can print our own money and they can't.

dont get me wrong the US has made its share of errors as outlined above but is better socialism like europe or better capitalism like what we used to have here the answer.

[scandal 951]

oh yeah with their mandate to use mercury filled cfl bulbs and roof insulation mandate that caused houses to burn down and electricute people. fantastic model.

If Australians are "electricuting" people, it must be because they're exactly the very ones who need to be "electricuted".

Aren't you one of the chopfucks singing the praises of capital punishment? Well, there you go. Death by roof insulation for the well deserved. No fuss, no muss. Go Australia.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

If Australians are "electricuting" people, it must be because they're exactly the very ones who need to be "electricuted".

Aren't you one of the chopfucks singing the praises of capital punishment? Well, there you go. Death by roof insulation for the well deserved. No fuss, no muss. Go Australia.

Alas, the poor n00b doesn't get it.

[Dan T 8]

If Australians are "electricuting" people, it must be because they're exactly the very ones who need to be "electricuted".

Aren't you one of the chopfucks singing the praises of capital punishment? Well, there you go. Death by roof insulation for the well deserved. No fuss, no muss. Go Australia.

im usually on the same side of other issues like free markets as people who prolly would argue in favor of death penalty(dont really know what my fellow capitalists on this board really think about it, nor do I care really), but ive certainly never argued pro-death penalty.

Edited April 1, 2010 by Dan T

[scandal 951]

Alas, the poor n00b doesn't get it.

No, apparently he does not.

[Dan T 8]

No, apparently he does not.

yeah yeah poor noob doesnt get the inside joke silly me ha ha what a bunch of intellectuals

[scandal 951]

yeah yeah poor noob doesnt get the inside joke silly me ha ha what a bunch of intellectuals

Thanks for being a good sport.

Usually people hang around for a while on a new board to get the vibe before going all apeshit starting new threads every day. Since you wanna be a post ####### like the rest of us, you gotta take your lumps like the rest of us too. Fair is fair. Please do drop by the chopfucks and the IEA threads where we love to haze the n00bies.

Anyway, just to let you know, whenever you see "Australia" on an OT thread, ESPECIALLY if it's from Spooky (or me ) you pretty much have to expect that it's an inside gag thing. We never post about Australia on the level. Never.

[Dan T 8]

Thanks for being a good sport.

Usually people hang around for a while on a new board to get the vibe before going all apeshit starting new threads every day. Since you wanna be a post ####### like the rest of us, you gotta take your lumps like the rest of us too. Fair is fair. Please do drop by the chopfucks and the IEA threads where we love to haze the n00bies.

Anyway, just to let you know, whenever you see "Australia" on an OT thread, ESPECIALLY if it's from Spooky (or me ) you pretty much have to expect that it's an inside gag thing. We never post about Australia on the level. Never.

ive always been a leap before you look kind of guy, and beside i have no one i respect that i can talk to about these issues in the real world. my wife even prefers i discuss online instead of with her. so yeah im a bit of a post ####### until the layoffs of the obama recession find a bottom and companies decide they need mid-level IT guys again.

[Welshcookie 17]

Thanks for being a good sport.

Usually people hang around for a while on a new board to get the vibe before going all apeshit starting new threads every day.

Oh, you and Spooky are the OT "Vibe"? Thanks for the heads up!

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Oh, you and Spooky are the OT "Vibe"? Thanks for the heads up!