So, What's the Real Reason Liberals Want to Take Away Your Guns?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

There are many valid reasons to like or dislike Obama - but that kind of lazy, hand-waving analysis is not it.

Nothing you've said here suggests that your opinion on the guy is based on a rational process of reasoning.

[Dan T 8]

There are many valid reasons to like or dislike Obama - but that kind of lazy, hand-waving analysis is not it.

Nothing you've said here suggests that your opinion on the guy is based on a rational process of reasoning.

it starts from a deeply held conviction that all govt is bad, and since we cant realistically function as a city/state/country with no govt at all, I am content with a less-is-better approach. Any research I have done on this issue, independant of bho, has always reinforced this conviction. bho started out of the gates wanting to make our federal govt bigger and more powerful and more centralized, reinforces it with every speech, and has given no indication of reversing himself.

Edited March 31, 2010 by Dan T

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

What research have you done?

[Dan T 8]

What research have you done?

I didnt keep a categorical list for the past 6 years and I certainly don't give a ####### if I convert anyone to my religion or my political persuasions. I know when people running for office want to take my rights away not to mention the UN(yes I realize the UN, the trilateral commision, and the bilderbergs have no real power), it doesnt really take much of just paying attention to peoples own words to realize it. Even if the 2nd ammendmant is a right I personally do not choose to exercise it would be tragically unamerican to lose it. has he made any direct reference to this? not that I can find(he still has his head up his ####### on healthcare), but I know the crowd he runs with and what his personal values are.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

So basically you are doing what I said earlier - you have a feeling about Obama based on speech quotes and a preconception than "all govt is bad".

[Dan T 8]

So basically you are doing what I said earlier - you have a feeling about Obama based on speech quotes and a preconception than "all govt is bad".

speeches, not just speech quotes. I try to listen to the full speech whenever I get the chance which is quite often. and yes my "preconception" has a lot to do with it and that is based on a combination of gut and exhaustive research into where bigger govt inevitably leads to every single time its been tried.

Edited March 31, 2010 by Dan T

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

So what exhaustive research have you done?

[Dan T 8]

So what exhaustive research have you done?

not here to convert anyone, nor justify my position to idealogs that are opposed to me. and i dont care if you dismiss me either I know who is on my side and that is enough for me

Edited March 31, 2010 by Dan T

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

It sounds like you are an ideologue all of your own.

It's fine that you don't like Obama. It's not fine that you can't/won't support that opinion with an intellectual rationale, but rather an emotional one.

[Dan T 8]

It sounds like you are an ideologue all of your own.

It's fine that you don't like Obama. It's not fine that you can't/won't support that opinion with an intellectual rationale, but rather an emotional one.

i didnt start as one, but i may very well have become one indeed through the course of all this madness by i am unapologetic for it and am comfortable with my path. won't is the correct choice of words and because of that you have made the choice to dismiss me as emotional rather than rational, and im comfortable with that too because i know the truth.

Edited March 31, 2010 by Dan T

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You are comfortable with being an ideologue and with making non-specific claims backed up by unspecified "research"?

Fair enough, that's certainly a convenient answer. I won't call you a liar.

[Dan T 8]

You are comfortable with being an ideologue and with making non-specific claims backed up by unspecified "research"?

Fair enough, that's certainly a convenient answer. I won't call you a liar.

this isnt a thread about the merits of small government, and if it were there are people better at playing this game in this forum than I am that I would happily defer to. As this thread goes I think the crime rate evidence is pretty compelling even though it was poorly relayed by its poster here, Ive also heard it from other sources. Again, that is enough for me and I dont really care if its enough for other readers. despite my belief that this evidence is compelling, I still refuse to carry a gun myself because of a personal deeply held belief and I certainly wish more people felt as I do but I realize that I have no right to impose my choice on anyone in a country where it is the law of the land that "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." one only needs a healthy fear of ones government and to look at crime rates in their respective neighborhood and be aware that criminals will always find a way to bring in guns despite stricter gun laws.

Edited March 31, 2010 by Dan T

[Dan T 8]

You are comfortable with being an ideologue and with making non-specific claims backed up by unspecified "research"?

Fair enough, that's certainly a convenient answer. I won't call you a liar.

and need I point out that youve provided no evidence of your own to refute the evidence that has been provided in this thread so far. talk about dismissive

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

and need I point out that youve provided no evidence of your own to refute the evidence that has been provided in this thread so far. talk about dismissive

what evidence was I supposed to provide?

I gave my opinion on the OP and questioned your opinion about Obama.

[Dan T 8]

what evidence was I supposed to provide?

I gave my opinion on the OP and questioned your opinion about Obama.

you called me out on my lack of evidence silly me for thinking you had any