The sun is still shining? For now maybe, but when you wake up

[Dan T 8]

And you, apparently, are one of them. How can the insurance companies lose, when effective price controls were absented from the Bill to appease some Democrat Congressmen and the public-at-large are mandated to take out policies with said private insurance companies? For them, it's a win-win situation.

The only solution here in which the general public win is to remove primary healthcare financing from the realms of the private insurance companies and place it in the public domain, preferably at State level. A single payer system, for all.

as long as that single payer is the end-user and not the govt, via taxes.

This antiquated US system of employers providing health insurance for the population is what fearful neo-conservatives fought for.

And now you don't like it?

you assume incorrectly that I am a neo-con, or that I favor the way our current system is opperated.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

http://republicans.w...r_timelinel.pdf

you can dismiss this if you like simply on the basis of the source being the GOP if you like but this is pretty scarry to me and id love to see someone dispute these claims on a factual basis. personally it makes me feel like less of a whacko when I tell people to fear obama and his weather underground mentors.

and add to it this video

http://www.breitbart...on-health-care/

Consider it dismissed then! Carry on!

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Sun still came up in the east today, sky is still up and no discernible cracks in the earths crust yet. My money is on that still being the case next year this time and the year after. Any of the 'end of the world crowd' willing to put their money against my prediction?

Nobody. Yeah, that's what I thought.

[Dan T 8]

Nobody. Yeah, that's what I thought.

ask again in a year, or better yet when all the cuts to medicare have triggered, and im betting that the line of people would be much longer among the people not killed or not among the 25%+ unemployed as a result of the mandates and restrictions. give it time give it time

[Dan J 277]

ask again in a year, or better yet when all the cuts to medicare have triggered, and im betting that the line of people would be much longer among the people not killed or not among the 25%+ unemployed as a result of the mandates and restrictions. give it time give it time

Businesses set prices at what they can get customers to pay for it. Japanese companies buy the same MRI machines that we get in the US for a fraction of the cost. Not because the MRI makers are selling at a loss, its that American hospitals/clinics will pay a lot more. In Japan the price for MRI's are controlled by the government so hospitals and clinics have less room for inefficiencies. In the US, there is a lot of room for inefficiency and profit.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

ask again in a year, or better yet when all the cuts to medicare have triggered, and im betting that the line of people would be much longer among the people not killed or not among the 25%+ unemployed as a result of the mandates and restrictions. give it time give it time

So you're gonna put your money where your mouth is and predict the demise of the USA because of the health care legislation? Obama signed Armageddon? The sun ain't gonna come up in 2012 or 2014? Is that where you put your money or are you just talking out of your #######?

[Dan T 8]

So you're gonna put your money where your mouth is and predict the demise of the USA because of the health care legislation? Obama signed Armageddon? The sun ain't gonna come up in 2012 or 2014? Is that where you put your money or are you just talking out of your #######?

oh please you know as well as i do that he meant it as a euphamism to mean that people who like their healthcare the way it is now can keep it and that theyre not going to be pulling the plug on granny, which was a euphamism itself to say that they wouldnt be rationing care to seniors. Using this frame of reference I would put my money against, and I suspect that I would be far from being the only one saying so in a year from now, anyone who asserts that Obama was telling the truth on either of these issues.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

oh please you know as well as i do that he meant it as a euphamism to mean that people who like their healthcare the way it is now can keep it and that theyre not going to be pulling the plug on granny, which was a euphamism itself to say that they wouldnt be rationing care to seniors. Using this frame of reference I would put my money against, and I suspect that I would be far from being the only one saying so in a year from now, anyone who asserts that Obama was telling the truth on either of these issues.

So you actually believe that the coverage available to you today won't be available to you a year or two from now as a result of the health care reform legislation and that care for seniors will be rationed as a result of it, too? What exactly leads you to that conculsion?

[Dan T 8]

So you actually believe that the coverage available to you today won't be available to you a year or two from now as a result of the health care reform legislation and that care for seniors will be rationed as a result of it, too? What exactly leads you to that conculsion?

cuts to medicare, incentives to push seniors out of private insurance and into medicaid, and disincentives for businesses to provide coverage to employees

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

cuts to medicare, incentives to push seniors out of private insurance and into medicaid, and disincentives for businesses to provide coverage to employees

What cuts to Medicare? Point me to the section of the health care reform legislation that cuts services and/or benefits in Medicare. Show me where seniors are pushed out of private insurance into Medicaid - what section of the legislation does that? And where in the legislation do you find the disincentives for businesses to provide coverage for their employees? Let's see some meat here.

[Dan T 8]

What cuts to Medicare? Point me to the section of the health care reform legislation that cuts services and/or benefits in Medicare. Show me where seniors are pushed out of private insurance into Medicaid - what section of the legislation does that? And where in the legislation do you find the disincentives for businesses to provide coverage for their employees? Let's see some meat here.

As the Wall Street Journal explains (about Caterpillar):

The world's largest construction equipment manufacturer by sales, warned last week that provisions in the legislation would subject the company to federal income taxes on the subsidies it receives for providing prescription drug benefits for its retirees and their spouses.

Since the Medicare Part D program was enacted in 2003, Peoria, Ill.-based Caterpillar and more than 3,500 companies that already provided drug-benefit expenses to retirees have received tax-free subsidies as an incentive to maintain their drug programs.

The subsidies average $665 per person covered under a company-sponsored prescription program, according to benefits consultants Towers Watson.

About 40,000 Caterpillar retirees receive company-sponsored drug benefits, which are more generous than Medicare's drug plan, which requires recipients to pay some out-of-pocket expenses.

The charge is expected to be a one-time cost, but Caterpillar has argued that higher taxes and other potential cost increases related to insurance coverage mandates in the legislation will hinder the company's recovery this year after a 75% plunge in income during 2009.

"From our point of view, a tax increase like this cannot come at a worse time," said Jim Dugan, a Caterpillar spokesman.

[Dan T 8]

What cuts to Medicare? Point me to the section of the health care reform legislation that cuts services and/or benefits in Medicare. Show me where seniors are pushed out of private insurance into Medicaid - what section of the legislation does that? And where in the legislation do you find the disincentives for businesses to provide coverage for their employees? Let's see some meat here.

Edited March 29, 2010 by Dan T

[DanielParul 50]

Makes us worry about our baby and how much he will be taxed to pay for somebody's healthcare while he stands in line to get treated for anything.

[Dan T 8]

What cuts to Medicare? Point me to the section of the health care reform legislation that cuts services and/or benefits in Medicare. Show me where seniors are pushed out of private insurance into Medicaid - what section of the legislation does that? And where in the legislation do you find the disincentives for businesses to provide coverage for their employees? Let's see some meat here.

do a google for healthcare cuts to medicare, its not hard

http://www.insurancenewsnet.com/article.aspx?id=140378

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

As the Wall Street Journal explains (about Caterpillar):

The world's largest construction equipment manufacturer by sales, warned last week that provisions in the legislation would subject the company to federal income taxes on the subsidies it receives for providing prescription drug benefits for its retirees and their spouses.

Since the Medicare Part D program was enacted in 2003, Peoria, Ill.-based Caterpillar and more than 3,500 companies that already provided drug-benefit expenses to retirees have received tax-free subsidies as an incentive to maintain their drug programs.

The subsidies average $665 per person covered under a company-sponsored prescription program, according to benefits consultants Towers Watson.

About 40,000 Caterpillar retirees receive company-sponsored drug benefits, which are more generous than Medicare's drug plan, which requires recipients to pay some out-of-pocket expenses.

The charge is expected to be a one-time cost, but Caterpillar has argued that higher taxes and other potential cost increases related to insurance coverage mandates in the legislation will hinder the company's recovery this year after a 75% plunge in income during 2009.

"From our point of view, a tax increase like this cannot come at a worse time," said Jim Dugan, a Caterpillar spokesman.

So, the long and short here is that you don't know the answer to my questions.