Health care reform, anyone?

[Justine+David 218]

I know this is a pretty controversial topic, but wanted to hear what other Brit's/significant others had to say about the passage of the health care reform in the U.S. over the past week, since you folks have the NHS.

David calls it, "about as right-wing conservative as meaningful health care reform could get!" and is fairly disappointed that we didn't get a single-payer system. I told him, "Sweetie, I love you, but haha!! We have to be about baby steps here because otherwise it would never pass. There is a good chunk of the U.S. that believes this is the anti-Christ."

Personally as a health care worker, I think it's fabulous and I'm so glad we are moving in the right direction. Even if I have to pay 5% more taxes (at this point no because I don't make $200k!), I honestly think it's the right thing to do for the good of the U.S. and its people.

Thoughts?

[Boiler 45,585]

I thought the NHS was pretty bad, but then the Yanks showed me they can do it bigger and worse.

This makes the pile of poo a bit bigger.

There are so many better ways to approach this.

Anyway back to the TV and all those adverts for prescription drugs. Good to see the money is being spent so wisely.

[Nich-Nick 3,354]

There is a good chunk of the U.S. that believes this is the anti-Christ."

Thoughts?

Yes, that's about what I think.

[Justine+David 218]

I'm very curious though--why?

I've heard a lot of arguments that the government shouldn't force people to buy health insurance as it's unconstitutional...but many states require that you buy car insurance. Many Americans without health insurance are about my age (mid-20s) and don't get it even if they can afford it, which I think is irresponsible, just as a person causing an accident who doesn't have car insurance.

It also breaks my heart that kids could be ineligible for health insurance because of preexisting conditions. Kids? Really? Having the parents have to deal with that mess while their child is sick is horrendous.

[Boiler 45,585]

No State requires you to insure damage to your own vehicle.

And you do not have to drive.

[Justine+David 218]

That may be true, but when people come into the ER for emergency care, it's still covered, be it from medicare/medicaid/charity care/etc, etc. It's not like other countries where you have to pay up front even if you're bleeding.

So...we're paying for it, but paying more for it. Haha, my friend down in the ER says that there are times she feels like she's working in a primary care clinic instead of an ER.

[TracyTN 237]

Hubby hated the NHS and doesn't miss it. We both know our system is far from perfect, but now it appears it will remain less than perfect and cost us even more as well.

Yay rah.

[thatbritishlass 2]

I've always been a big fan of the NHS. Yes it's far from perfect and if it's not life-threatening you'll be waiting a long time, but I don't think a lot of people here realise what they've got. I am what's commonly known as a walking disaster and land myself in A&E frequently and have always got amazing care. My mum had breast cancer and her wait for an op was shorter on the NHS than on her private insurance.

My only experience of the American healthcare system is having to go to the ER with an allergic reaction, being charged $3000 for 3 hours I was there and then being chased by bailiffs for 6 months after I returned home over a bill I never received....so maybe I'm a bit biased!! But I can honestly say that I worry more about how I will afford healthcare once I've moved than anything else in this whole process.

[JamalNTam 1]

I miss the NHS .. I cannot stand the healthcare system in this country so I'm glad something is being done .. even if it is 'baby steps'.

Edited March 26, 2010 by JamalNTam

[Nich-Nick 3,354]

Does anybody really understand the new healthcare bill that's 2400 pages long? I don't. My leaning toward opposing it is I don't normally like things that the government takes over. I don't want to pay any more money for people who want something free or reduced. I resent checking out in the grocery store behind someone using food stamps, but the part they pay for themselves is two cases of beer and a fistful lottery tickets. They are talking on their i-phone (which I think is too expensive to justify for myself), the kid is playing his PS2, and they drive off in a car that's nicer than mine. I've taught in low income minority schools and know Mom's that keep having babies to get a higher assistance check from the government. They told me. They have a live-in guy, but don't marry because it will reduce their "free" stuff. What does this have to do with healthcare? Nothing, but it has to do with the government taking over things in a giant bureaucratic way for a good intention, and millions find a way to abuse or milk the system. And people like me will foot the bill. When I was mid-twenties it was a struggle to make it to the next payday. But I put away a portion of money into savings every month, never carried a credit card balance, and had to live without the latest frills. Now I have a helluva lot of money (by your 20-something standards) but I still pay off my credit cards, don't have an i-phone, only subscribe to basic cable, and don't have a 60 inch plasma. And I think that there's no "free lunch" because somebody is ultimately paying for it, and I worry it might be me. I think the health care system is out of whack. I wonder why the costs are outrageous. And I don't think this healthcare bill will fix it. But I'm not actually one of those people raising hell about it. I'll just deal with it and hope I continue to enjoy no waiting to see the best specialists and receive the finest care that's available and the government won't decide whether I deserver cancer treatment or not.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Does anybody really understand the new healthcare bill that's 2400 pages long? I don't. My leaning toward opposing it is I don't normally like things that the government takes over. I don't want to pay any more money for people who want something free or reduced. I resent checking out in the grocery store behind someone using food stamps, but the part they pay for themselves is two cases of beer and a fistful lottery tickets. They are talking on their i-phone (which I think is too expensive to justify for myself), the kid is playing his PS2, and they drive off in a car that's nicer than mine. I've taught in low income minority schools and know Mom's that keep having babies to get a higher assistance check from the government. They told me. They have a live-in guy, but don't marry because it will reduce their "free" stuff. What does this have to do with healthcare? Nothing, but it has to do with the government taking over things in a giant bureaucratic way for a good intention, and millions find a way to abuse or milk the system. And people like me will foot the bill. When I was mid-twenties it was a struggle to make it to the next payday. But I put away a portion of money into savings every month, never carried a credit card balance, and had to live without the latest frills. Now I have a helluva lot of money (by your 20-something standards) but I still pay off my credit cards, don't have an i-phone, only subscribe to basic cable, and don't have a 60 inch plasma. And I think that there's no "free lunch" because somebody is ultimately paying for it, and I worry it might be me. I think the health care system is out of whack. I wonder why the costs are outrageous. And I don't think this healthcare bill will fix it. But I'm not actually one of those people raising hell about it. I'll just deal with it and hope I continue to enjoy no waiting to see the best specialists and receive the finest care that's available and the government won't decide whether I deserver cancer treatment or not.

For every family abusing the system, there is a working class family with both partners working where they either aren't offered health care of offered it at a price out of reach for their wages.

I think it's more productive to be concerned about those families than the former. There will always be system abusers. Working taxpayers should not be viewed in the same light.

[DukeOfYork 28]

Many Americans without health insurance are about my age (mid-20s) and don't get it even if they can afford it, which I think is irresponsible, just as a person causing an accident who doesn't have car insurance.

1.) Most states require you to have liability insurance to protect others from you, but only if you are at fault in the accident. That is it. They don't require you to get insurance for damage to your own vehicle. Banks may require it, but they have a financial interest in the vehicle since they gave you a loan. The same is true for homeowners insurance.

2.) Overall, I'm glad people with pre-existing conditions won't be denied coverage. But the other side of the coin is that there will be those "healthy young people" who would rather pay their yearly fine of $400 than spend $4k-$8k on health insurance. That is, until something happens and they are diagnosed with cancer or some other costly disease. Then they'll get health insurance and won't be denied because they can't be denied anymore for pre-existing conditions. So is it fair that you and I will be paying premiums for years and someone who gets diagnosed yesterday runs out and buys insurance the next day? The insurance company (read: our premiums) will instantly be paying out more for his/her care in the first year than he/she will be putting in!

People take advantage of insurance. I see it every day. If there is abuse in the system now, there will be in the future.

[Empress of Groovy 373]

I think the bill is less than perfect, but I'm glad to see some of the restrictions placed on insurance companies, and that covering a big chunk of the uninsured has finally become a priority. I've been self-employed for various stints, and getting an individual policy was always a project. Fortunately, I never had to test my individual insurance in a real way, but if I'd been in an accident or really sick, I know my out of pocket costs would have been enormous. I do think this legislation will hugely benefit freelancers & self-employed people. I suspect that a lot of people opposed to the legislation haven't dealt with the clusterfvck that is an individual insurance plan--in some cases, getting one at all. And I know two people offhand who were kicked off their policies because they made too many claims.

My (UKC) husband hates the healthcare system here. He doesn't even want to talk about it because it pisses him off so much. His position is that people opposed to a basic universal system that covers all are simply selfish bastards who don't care if their access to care hampers someone else's. He's basically healthy and hasn't really had to test his insurance, but he broke his collarbone a couple of years ago playing soccer. He spent about an hour in the ER getting X-rays, and they sent him off in a sling with some pain meds. Although his out-of-pocket costs for the visit ended up being about $150 after insurance kicked in, the piles of paperwork that arrived in the mail was staggering--a bill from the hospital, doctor, x-ray department, this, that--it really shows you how inefficient the system is when 30 min. in the ER generates this much paperwork. Can you imagine being a cancer patient and dealing with this $#it? Especially when certain claims are denied for whatever reason?

Anyhoo, I do think the furor will die down, and this legislation will benefit a lot of people. I don't think any bill representing real change would be immune to a lot of criticism. Everyone knows that cost has to be controlled, but there's no one way to do that without switching to a single-payer system, and that simply isn't feasible in the U.S., at least not now. Too many interests have been allowed to make too much money for too long, and our system is very corrupt.

I am hopeful that overall, it will be a good thing, and many people who have gone without care for a long time can finally get the treatment they need and quit panicking about getting sick.

Edited March 26, 2010 by Empress of Groovy

[VisaJourneyLady 33]

When I was mid-twenties it was a struggle to make it to the next payday. But I put away a portion of money into savings every month, never carried a credit card balance, and had to live without the latest frills. Now I have a helluva lot of money (by your 20-something standards) but I still pay off my credit cards, don't have an i-phone, only subscribe to basic cable, and don't have a 60 inch plasma. And I think that there's no "free lunch" because somebody is ultimately paying for it, and I worry it might be me. I think the health care system is out of whack. I wonder why the costs are outrageous. And I don't think this healthcare bill will fix it. But I'm not actually one of those people raising hell about it. I'll just deal with it and hope I continue to enjoy no waiting to see the best specialists and receive the finest care that's available and the government won't decide whether I deserver cancer treatment or not.

Are you the UK spouse, or the US one? Because if you're from the UK you actually have no idea what it's like to be mid-twenties, have a decent job try as best as you can to do all the right things, including saving a bit etc, and still have a good healthcare plan so far out of reach that it's a shame on this country.

If you are the US spouse, then what is it about insurance companies, and their business practices that makes you think that they are the best entity to decide which treatments you are in need of/entitled to? They have a long history of being obstructionist in a way that if their behaviour was mimicked by a doctor, they would be sued for medical malpractice. Insurance companies sole motive is profit. I honestly don't know why you trust them more than your elected representatives.

[Gemmie 142]

It's obviously a lot more complicated than YES PASS IT or NO DENY IT. There are so many things to work out, including the insurance companies, taxes, even immigration (who deserves this health care? I know in the UK, foreigners are treated just the same way as Brits).

But I will say that I support the reform. When I was in the UK, I never even thought about it as luckily I've never been sick. I've only ever had one surgery to remove some teeth. But since moving to the US, getting sick is a constant worry because frankly, we can't afford to be. I don't understand why people are scoffing at paying more in taxes - insurance is so much more expensive! A $400 p/m bill for the possibility of being sick (and that's with the employer paying some) is frightening. It's just scary that there are so many people in this country that can't afford the health insurance, and thus can't afford to get sick. Something needs to be done about that.

Is universal healthcare the solution? I think so. It works well in the UK - poorer families pay less taxes to pay for it. My mother had lots of care on the NHS as she suffered with IBS and other bowel illnesses, as well as gull-stones. She also had heavy painful menstrual bleeding and had a coil inserted. We were lucky to have this done with no hassles and not much waiting. In America, if you can't afford to pay for health insurance and need care, you're pulled even deeper into debt with huge bills. I've heard how families that fall pregnant without insurance are left with absolutely ridiculous hospital bills. My MIL is 100% Conservative, but her fears of not being able to afford this universal care are already here, as her father suffers from Alzheimers. They're having to practically sell everything just to get him care as they're footed with a $8000 p/m bill.

Of course there will be people trying to scam the system (i.e. taking advantage of their "poorer" status) but they're always going to exist. Just as right now, there are people taking advantage of social welfare - you're already paying for that in taxes.