The Constitutionality of Individual Mandates

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Sofi, the Attorneys General are taking this fight to the courts where Obama will have no say in the matter, unless you want to count who he appoints to the Supreme Court over the next 3 years, but even then, the court is heavily stacked with conservative justices.

I was responding to your comment about Barry consulting with constitutional scholars. He has shown a marked tendency to ignore what he doesn't want to know.

[Peikko 1,575]

i'm willing to be she does.

I'm willing to bet that anyone who is actually in the position to be able to pay out of pocket would actually buy health insurance because that's the most fiscally prudent thing to do. Anyone that claims to pay out of pocket because it's cheaper is delusional.

Edited March 24, 2010 by Madame Cleo

[Obama 2012 1,714]

The Nine Supreme Court Justices rarely come to a unanimous decision on constitutional matters. These are complex issues yet many people think that you can simply read the Constitution and know how to apply to all matters.

Ah, but the disagreements alone prove that they do not know how to apply them to matters themselves.

To have a vast understanding of the constitution and its intentions one must look into what the situation was at the time, what the founders were trying to escape from. Not only what they agreed upon, but also what they disagreed upon as well. Also a good understanding of the Federalist Papers is imperative to understanding the constitution as well.

Rarely, unless you obtain a PhD in constitutional law, will anyone cover all of those things and beyond. So any ruling by the supreme court by a justice who lacks that knowledge and understanding (be it right or wrong) is not considered the best judgment.

[Ban Hammer 13,445]

I'm willing to bet that anyone who is actually in the position to be able to pay out of pocket would actually buy health insurance because that's the most fiscally prudent thing to do. Anyone that claims to pay out of pocket because it's cheaper is delusional.

amazing you can tells one's state of mind over the internet.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Medical care is cheaper without insurance. I also don't pay periferal admin cost, just for what I use.

[Peikko 1,575]

Careful..this is long and winding dead end that's been explored many times before.

No kidding. These people are also claiming that they don't bother with car insurance either, or house insurance or any other form of insurance

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

No kidding. These people are also claiming that they don't bother with car insurance either, or house insurance or any other form of insurance

Well to be fair if you really do have the funds to "self insure" I wouldn't choose insurance either.

[Peikko 1,575]

amazing you can tells one's state of mind over the internet.

State of mind? Buying insurance is fiscally prudent, people who have a lot of money are fiscally prudent, not spendthrifts . To imagine that you can pay out of pocket for health care and save money all through life is a delusion, that's got nothing to do with guesswork.

Well to be fair if you really do have the funds to "self insure" I wouldn't choose insurance either.

No? Do you understand risk analysis?

[Peikko 1,575]

I'm still rather curious as to how those who consider health care as a privilege view those who are born with congenital defects. Dependent on the severity of the illness caused by the defect such people are more or less dependent on health care for the right to life. How should these people be treated to give them equality of opportunity?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Ah, but the disagreements alone prove that they do not know how to apply them to matters themselves.

To have a vast understanding of the constitution and its intentions one must look into what the situation was at the time, what the founders were trying to escape from. Not only what they agreed upon, but also what they disagreed upon as well. Also a good understanding of the Federalist Papers is imperative to understanding the constitution as well.

Rarely, unless you obtain a PhD in constitutional law, will anyone cover all of those things and beyond. So any ruling by the supreme court by a justice who lacks that knowledge and understanding (be it right or wrong) is not considered the best judgment.

You have a PhD in Constitutional Law?

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

State of mind? Buying insurance is fiscally prudent, people who have a lot of money are fiscally prudent, not spendthrifts . To imagine that you can pay out of pocket for health care and save money all through life is a delusion, that's got nothing to do with guesswork.

No? Do you understand risk analysis?

Well basically think of the most expensive condition you can could get at your given age and set up a fund for it. Arguably you'd probably need at least 20-30 million but if you have the money I suppose its worth it at least while you are younger.

Edited March 24, 2010 by Sousuke

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Well to be fair if you really do have the funds to "self insure" I wouldn't choose insurance either.

Most millionaires have insurance policies. It would be asinine not to...given the cost to benefit ratio.

[SMR 368]

State of mind? Buying insurance is fiscally prudent, people who have a lot of money are fiscally prudent, not spendthrifts . To imagine that you can pay out of pocket for health care and save money all through life is a delusion, that's got nothing to do with guesswork.

No? Do you understand risk analysis?

Do you understand risk analysis? On the average, insurance companies take in more money than they pay out. That's how they stay in business. That means that, on the average, it costs less to pay for a person's healthcare over his or her life than that person will pay in premiums, over his or her lifetime. But that is all on the average. The whole point of insurance is that although on the average everyone is okay, some people get really screwed. Insurance just means that everyone is screwed a little bit.

So not buying insurance means you may be on the hook for a lot but that on the average you will do better. There are arguments to be made here about the advantage of collective bargaining to get a better rate. However, the convolutedness of the health insurance industry currently means that health care providers would just rather receive cash. So if you are willing to pay cash up front, you can get a pretty good deal.

Edited March 24, 2010 by SMR

[mawilson 2,133]

I'm willing to bet that anyone who is actually in the position to be able to pay out of pocket would actually buy health insurance because that's the most fiscally prudent thing to do. Anyone that claims to pay out of pocket because it's cheaper is delusional.

I'm not so sure. Insurance is essentially a bet against yourself.

If you're young and healthy, it's a waste of money. Health insurance

costs $15k/year or more; if you never use it, in 20 years you will have

wasted $300k, much more adjusted for inflation and capital gains.

It's much better to keep the money in a health savings account and use

it if - and only *if* - you need it.

[Peikko 1,575]

Well basically think of the most expensive condition you can could get at your given age and set up a fund for it. Arguably you'd probably need at least 20-30 million but if you have the money I suppose it worth it at least while you are younger.

How does that save you money? I would imagine there are policies that kick in once a procedure hits a certain amount so they can save on the cheap stuff and still be protected when health issues hit the large numbers.

Edited March 24, 2010 by Madame Cleo