The GOP's Waterloo get worse

[Dan T 8]

You do realize that there are not very many people like that? You do realize that even if by some miracle you could isolate these people and zap them, the problems of poverty would not change in any material way? You do realize that simply being poor does not mean that one is lazy? I guess not...

you must not live in a town with a higher population of illegals than citizens/legal imigrants that cram 6 people into a studio that flood the er with every sniffle. i see way too many multiple generation welfare families completely destroying any system that was genuinely put in place to help the people who were otherwise hardworking and fell on hard times, now thanks to this bill those hard times will only reach a greater number of people.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

it was meant as a handout to tort lawyers

Relevant data shows that tort lawyers are not the issue with our health care system. A half a percent in savings on the health care system overall and under two tenth of a percent in defict reduction is all that tort reform would yield. We need cost containment that does better than that if we are looking to avert the economic disaster this broken health care system is about to inflict on this country. It's like a cancer that is about to kill our economy.

[Dan T 8]

Relevant data shows that tort lawyers are not the issue with our health care system. A half a percent in savings on the health care system overall and under two tenth of a percent in defict reduction is all that tort reform would yield. We need cost containment that does better than that if we are looking to avert the economic disaster this broken health care system is about to inflict on this country. It's like a cancer that is about to kill our economy.

never said it didnt need to be fixed. we agree it is broken but this bill still sucks

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

based on the careful use of language in the report you directed me to that repeatedly reassures that it is evaluating a typical selection of legislation. i would be much more interested in a private analysis of several complete legislative packages but you have repeatedly shown your contempt for private industry so....

If there was any opportunity to show decisively that there are significant savings in tort reform, then the material would be all over the Heritage Foundation's website, the AEI's website, and the more lunatic sources like the American thinker and such. It isn't to be had. What the CBO evaluated is what the GOP wants done to save the health care system and to prevent it from sinking the US economy. It's not doing the trick.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

never said it didnt need to be fixed. we agree it is broken but this bill still sucks

Well great then. What bill is going to do it? Where are the viable alternatives? tort reform and a race to the bottom on the quality of health care insurance aren't the avenues that promise to deliver. That's all the other side of the aisle has come up with. It's a dud.

[Dan T 8]

Well great then. What bill is going to do it? Where are the viable alternatives? tort reform and a race to the bottom on the quality of health care insurance aren't the avenues that promise to deliver. That's all the other side of the aisle has come up with. It's a dud.

the idea that anything can be solved by either side of any aisle in washington is pure fantasy. whether its run by republican reds or democratic blues or communist reds in the current incarnation, the only people washington ever help are themselves. expecting a central government of this behemoth size to do any good for anyone outside the beltway is like trying to urinate upstream and expecting not to have it wash back on you. plenty of free market solutions have been offered even on this forum. im not going to do the leg work for you but plenty of people more articulate and data heavy than i have presented plenty of capitalist solutions that id be in favor of. go on admit it, you do hate capitalism right mr single payor?

this thread is about this bill and it sucks.

[Candy/SadanNasir 2]

After Passage Poll:

Pre Passage Poll:

universal single payer not table scraps........

(twice on the table in CA and twice vetoed)

[DEDixon 39]

cry me a freakin river. that still does not justify a complete destruction of an entire section of private industry which is what this bill is the first step towards. this bill was not even meant to help perpetual contractors it was meant as a handout to tort lawyers and unions.

well seems you have no pre-existing conditions.

i challenged you to call for insurance while pretending to have pre-existing conditions. you deflect by talking about tort lawyers and unions.

i'm a repub (barely still a repub) but i'm also a human with pre-existing conditions. frankly, i don't care who benefits from the bill as long as i can.... if not now some time in the future... at least the option will be available. if you have pre-existing conditions, your outlook changes quickly. negative experience with the system changes people.

with this bill, i could easily return to contracting. without this bill, i'm stuck working for fortune 500 types. but, you don't understand, because you are healthy.... for now.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

go on admit it, you do hate capitalism right mr single payor?

I don't hate capitalism. I chose capitalism. Unlike you, I wasn't born into it but fought for it because that's what I consider the preferable economic system. Not because it's perfect but because it produces much better results than any alternative ever tried. Unlike you, I've lived and seen both side of the equation and believe me, I like this one. That's why I'm here. That doesn't mean, however, that one cannot lodge valid criticism against this operating model. Certainly not when capitalism US style of the 21st century operates under the model "socialize risk and privatize profits". When you look at your average corporate elite today, these guys can't lose. They defy gravity. They can run a large corporation into the ground and not only walk away with 8 or 9 digit packages but also turn around and occupy well compensated positions on the next company's board. Something's seriously out of whack.

[Dan T 8]

I don't hate capitalism. I chose capitalism. Unlike you, I wasn't born into it but fought for it because that's what I consider the preferable economic system. Not because it's perfect but because it produces much better results than any alternative ever tried. Unlike you, I've lived and seen both side of the equation and believe me, I like this one. That's why I'm here. That doesn't mean, however, that one cannot lodge valid criticism against this operating model. Certainly not when capitalism US style of the 21st century operates under the model "socialize risk and privatize profits". When you look at your average corporate elite today, these guys can't lose. They defy gravity. They can run a large corporation into the ground and not only walk away with 8 or 9 digit packages but also turn around and occupy well compensated positions on the next company's board. Something's seriously out of whack.

they defy gravity because it is their god given talent and ambition to do so, while it is the talent of the genetically lazy to sink like anchors in the ocean and drag those around them along. i guess its just not fair that some people are born to parents who teach success, or failure, come as a result of your own doing and some are born into multi-generational welfare recipient families, never fear obama to the rescue.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

they defy gravity because it is their god given talent and ambition to do so,

Ah, I see. So it is of no concern that a CEO gets fired (with a $200MM+ package) from one large company after having done nothing to grow it and produce shareholder (read: owner) value to then move on and ruin another as CEO. Yeah, that's some talent.

[Dan T 8]

I don't hate capitalism. I chose capitalism. Unlike you, I wasn't born into it but fought for it because that's what I consider the preferable economic system. Not because it's perfect but because it produces much better results than any alternative ever tried. Unlike you, I've lived and seen both side of the equation and believe me, I like this one. That's why I'm here. That doesn't mean, however, that one cannot lodge valid criticism against this operating model. Certainly not when capitalism US style of the 21st century operates under the model "socialize risk and privatize profits". When you look at your average corporate elite today, these guys can't lose. They defy gravity. They can run a large corporation into the ground and not only walk away with 8 or 9 digit packages but also turn around and occupy well compensated positions on the next company's board. Something's seriously out of whack.

you are clearly living in conflict because you cant simultaneously espouse capitalism while being resentful towards those who have been the big winners of it.

Ah, I see. So it is of no concern that a CEO gets fired (with a $200MM+ package) from one large company after having done nothing to grow it and produce shareholder (read: owner) value to then move on and ruin another as CEO. Yeah, that's some talent.

no concern at all. it is unsustainable. it will correct itself.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

you are clearly living in conflict because you cant simultaneously espouse capitalism while being resentful towards those who have been the big winners of it.

Oh, I'm a winner of it. Have been working my way up quite successfully over the decade or so I've been working in my current industry. But I've got results to show which cannot necessarily be said about some of those executives who sure have managed to build a network that works for them but producing value for their employers they can't really claim. They fall up all the same and that I have an issue with. I don't begrudge a successful business(wo)man their riches. Not at all. If they produce for the shareholders, they ought to be rewarded. However, that knife ought to cut both ways and it doesn't.

[Dan T 8]

Ah, I see. So it is of no concern that a CEO gets fired (with a $200MM+ package) from one large company after having done nothing to grow it and produce shareholder (read: owner) value to then move on and ruin another as CEO. Yeah, that's some talent.

if you wanted to talk about "too big to fail" and sherman anti trust and glass-spiegl (sp?) sure there are some corrective actions to be taken to prevent abuses but i applaud that ceo for doing well for himself in the environment that is presented.