Individualism Dies The Stroke of a Pen

[Wyld Blu 35]

BTW, having medical insurance is not from a sense of "entitlement" but rather a wish to survive the unexpected.

Would you provide insurance for your children, your wife, or just hope they survive on what you might have in the bank, if they were seriously hurt or ill? If the difference is they could survive from the care, insurance could provide, or have much less (if any) care from what only you could provide, what would you chose? Perhaps you are unaware of the true costs of medical care without insurance.

I also wonder (no insult intended here) if at your young age (just based on your picture), you still have the "it won't happen to me" mentality.

-Blu-

[The_Dude 1,142]

Company has BCBS and also an extended benefit plan as well. They pay the majority of the costs for the plans.

I still make my choice.

Well then you're making a poor decision. plain and simple.

[Ali G. 37]

Actually I pay for it, eventhough this whole individual responsibility aspect hasn't hit you in your Aussie brain yet. Not everyone is a ###### deadbeat.

Also premiums aren't really effected by those who don't pay. People ilke ME who would pay cash are the ones effected the most. Hate to break it to you.

Ah so you are another guy who will pay for a $100k surgery in cash hey. A lot of big spenders here on VJ. Unfortunately anyone who is actually business savvy would not waste $100k to pay for surgery, in lieu of health care coverage.

[Peikko 1,575]

If I can't pay for it/afford it, I won't use it. Health Care is not a right. Sorry, hate to tell you that. It's a service provided by others. If you can't pay, you don't get to play. Unless by chance there's some charitable clinic out there willing to take those on who can't afford it, whatever at that point. No one else should be forced to take care of anyone else.

I have what the law requires in my privileges and their use as well as what the contracts I sign at points in my life require.

My foresite is fine. I live under the guise that if you live, you live. If you're sick, you're sick and you'll either get better with what you can, or you won't.... It's pretty damn simple.

Sorry, I have no entitlement mentality whatsoever.

Let it be said, I have no wish for you to get sick or be involved in an accident and hopefully you will not be. However, what you seem to be saying is that you would rather die and have others, people who love you, and people who have taken the Hippocratic oath see you die in pain than have medical intervention that you can't afford simply so you can claim to be an individual?

You do realize of course, that you are always benefiting in some way from collectivism? The type of individualism you have such a penchant for simply doesn't exist in modern society and in fact has never existed in any society?

[Obama 2012 1,714]

BTW, having medical insurance is not from a sense of "entitlement" but rather a wish to survive the unexpected.

Would you provide insurance for your children, your wife, or just hope they survive on what you might have in the bank, if they were seriously hurt or ill? If the difference is they could survive from the care, insurance could provide, or have much less (if any) care from what only you could provide, what would you chose? Perhaps you are unaware of the true costs of medical care without insurance.

I also wonder (no insult intended here) if at your young age (just based on your picture), you still have the "it won't happen to me" mentality.

-Blu-

LOL, never have had that mentality. Been through more than most people have. Grew up with a single mom, who had to be on the system for a certain period of time, and while I'm sure she was greatful to it, I made a promise that I would never be on the system in any way whatsoever. I believe in taking care of oneself and being responsible when it comes down to it all. ###### happens in life, I know.

As far as unaware of costs. Very well aware and is why I try and push that as the issue rather than insurance. People keep looking at insurance as the problem when it's not.

My wife and kids are a compeltely different story (if I choose to have children... depends though as I will only do what I can afford to as not to burden society). I live for me and take care of myself, and will always make sure those that I bring into my life are taken care of, as who knows how differently their conditions might be from my own.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

If Health Care truly is a business and if the mandate is struck as Unconstitutional, then Hospitals should deny treatment to anyone without coverage even in an emergency. We can't afford to have it both ways any longer.

Either stick with the mandate or let people die.

Edited March 23, 2010 by Sousuke

[Peikko 1,575]

It's a bit bizarre. I can't imagine there are many people who would not take out insurance for health care due to ones ideological position on individualism - a somewhat screwed up position at that. That is downright perverse.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I have what the law requires in my privileges and their use as well as what the contracts I sign at points in my life require.

You're dodging the real question. You made the argument that you choose not to buy health insurance because you believe it is a worthwhile risk. Setting aside any laws requiring you to have other forms of insurance, would you choose also not to insure your life, home or car?

[Wyld Blu 35]

LOL, never have had that mentality. Been through more than most people have. Grew up with a single mom, who had to be on the system for a certain period of time, and while I'm sure she was greatful to it, I made a promise that I would never be on the system in any way whatsoever. I believe in taking care of oneself and being responsible when it comes down to it all. ###### happens in life, I know.

As far as unaware of costs. Very well aware and is why I try and push that as the issue rather than insurance. People keep looking at insurance as the problem when it's not.

My wife and kids are a compeltely different story (if I choose to have children... depends though as I will only do what I can afford to as not to burden society). I live for me and take care of myself, and will always make sure those that I bring into my life are taken care of, as who knows how differently their conditions might be from my own.

Being on welfare and/or foodstamps should not be confused with carrying insurance. They are different "systems" if you will.

Being on welfare is generally due to the fact that you have NO other means of income and therefore is a survival mechanism. Medical insurance can also be seen as a survival mechanism, however it is not simply a "handout" meant to help you in hard times. It is there to help you though the most expensive parts of an illness or accident. You (or your employer) will still contribute, as we do for welfare too, but it is not just a handout.

-Blu-

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Being on welfare and/or foodstamps should not be confused with carrying insurance. They are different "systems" if you will.

Being on welfare is generally due to the fact that you have NO other means of income and therefore is a survival mechanism. Medical insurance can also be seen as a survival mechanism, however it is not simply a "handout" meant to help you in hard times. It is there to help you though the most expensive parts of an illness or accident. You (or your employer) will still contribute, as we do for welfare too, but it is not just a handout.

-Blu-

Sorry, but I call it a handout for families of 4 making $88,000 per year that will get Subsidies still. If a family of 4 can't cut it in certain cities making that much, then maybe they should move to a more affordable area in the country. Maybe those people shouldn't have kids either. It's truly that simple.

The only thing I would ever agree to on health care when it comes to government mandates is that all health insurance payments and all health care costs that you aquire throughout the year should be a tax credit. For EVERYONE.

[Peikko 1,575]

Are you one of these folks that insists on doing everything themselves, even when doing so inconveniences others?

[Obama 2012 1,714]

You're dodging the real question. You made the argument that you choose not to buy health insurance because you believe it is a worthwhile risk. Setting aside any laws requiring you to have other forms of insurance, would you choose also not to insure your life, home or car?

Car insurance isn't required by law to begin with. Proof of financial responsibility is. Now, barring no laws were in place, that would depend on my personal nature if I could afford to replace said vehicle or if I could afford to pay the costs of another individual involved in the accident. If I could afford it, why would I? I'd much rather take monthly payments and invest them myself and get returns, rather than throw them down and endless tube that I may never get to see. The same applies to all forms of insurance.

Are you one of these folks that insists on doing everything themselves, even when doing so inconveniences others?

I inconvenience no one.

I live my life, stick to myself, obey traffic laws and common courtesy when in public, etc.

[Peikko 1,575]

You do not buy any form of insurance? Obviously you think that everyone can and should invest, what $100 a week and get a million dollar return in order to be able to pay for any unfortunate situation that might arise? You can't possibly think that everyone is in a position to simply save and pay for these things (with interest rates for small deposits running at what? 1.4% if you are lucky), or, do you?

Edited March 23, 2010 by Madame Cleo

[Peikko 1,575]

Car insurance isn't required by law to begin with. Proof of financial responsibility is. Now, barring no laws were in place, that would depend on my personal nature if I could afford to replace said vehicle or if I could afford to pay the costs of another individual involved in the accident. If I could afford it, why would I? I'd much rather take monthly payments and invest them myself and get returns, rather than throw them down and endless tube that I may never get to see. The same applies to all forms of insurance.

I inconvenience no one.

I live my life, stick to myself, obey traffic laws and common courtesy when in public, etc.

Ah, you are the stone that produces no ripples when thrown in the pond, how very Eastern mystic.

You do know that is ridiculous? I guess you don't huh?

[Obama 2012 1,714]

You do not buy any form of insurance? Obviously you think that everyone can and should invest, what $100 a week and get a million dollar return in order to be able to pay for any unfortunate situation that might arise? You can't possibly think that everyone is in a position to simply save and pay for these things (with interest rates for small deposits running at what? 1.4% if you are lucky), or, do you?

I have auto insurance because I have to and because I choose to work somewhere that's outside of the public transportation realm here. I'd still drive either way though because it's just easier.. I also have insurance because there's too many jack #### drivers out there who need to take a driver's ed class once a year to get a damn clue....

Think of it this way otherwie though. Without interest. Let's sad you go 10 years of saving $100 a month. That's $12,000. 20 years, that's $24,000, etc.. Imagine saving more than that a month if you could.

Not everyone can do that, but it is possible to do for most people.

The problem here isn't about insurance as I keep saying, it's about cost. The thought of a medical procedure costing more than your home is utterly absurd.