SLeone top female circumcisers abandon trade, burn instruments

[Mirorgate 0]

NO, the question I was asked and what is being implied is that my prophet condoned something bad and that he should have said without fail that it's forbidden. What I'm trying to help you understand is this... IF it's medically necessary, it's allowed.... what if he would have said "no, don't do it ever, it's forbidden"???? Then those women who need it would not be allowed "religiously" to have the procedure since we follow God's law above all else.

AND since he was asked about it and commented on it, we know that what those doctors and "shayks or imams" use it for is haraam. He never told anyone to be circumcised to decrease sexual desire. There is no proof at all that any of the female companions had this done... none of his wives... daughters... there is absolutely no sound hadith (that I know of) in which the prophet had this procedure done to any female in his family... ever... the prophet's wives are the mother's of the believers... we (muslim women) try very hard to emulate them in our actions because they were the best of women... if it was so commendable then why is there no mention of any of those women (the wives of the prophet OR the wives/daughters/sisters/aunts/neices/whoever of the companions) having had this procedure done?

This was yet another thing on this board to attempt to make Islam look barbaric and it's incorrect.

I realize a lot of people think it's gross or senseless that there are hadith that discuss a wide range of subjects that wouldn't normally be talked about in public but there's good reason for it. Islam is meant to cover every aspect of your life. There is nothing that you may encounter in your day to day life that you cant' find addressed in Islam, which is one of the things that makes it perfect and complete.

It is done in African countries.... not only by muslims but has also been practiced by christians and jews in that region as well. It was around before Islam... it has nothing to do with Islam... It is not something that most Arab countries have ever even heard of.

My husband had never heard of it before now.

Get over yourself. my questions have been explicitly about why would you go get a clerics advise on this over getting the advice from a dr for a medical procedure (provided there was one). I originally used the word priest.. but since you first objection over it, i changed the word to fit your comfort. you have yet to answer the question. I do not care if your profit said corrective surgery was ok or not, i do not care if he condoned it for the one woman you gave reference to. I have asked for YOUR opinion on whether you think it wise to ask a book scholar or an actual practicing physician if there is a MEDICAL reason for having your genitals cut apart because someone other than a DR thinks maybe you should. And if there is NO medical reason (correcting urinary blockage, etc) then why are there a disproportionate # of women reported to have undergone the procedure? And take a look at the places that do it.. regardless of religion (I dont care, but you do) it is not just Afriaca that practices FGM. The links to Dr's offices here are plastic surgeons working to correct minor cosmetic defects (removal of clitoral hood vs removal of hood, #######, #######).

you are not "helping" me understand anything since you will not answer the question. Why do you condone FGM?

http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/intcam/femgen/fgm1.htm

there's a link that explains a little more about it. not the words "ritual" are used quite often here... note there is just a small blurb at the bottom regarding any of this to do with religion.

my stance is that if there is NO medical reason what so ever... why allow it to propogate? And if there is a reason.. see a Dr... you throw hadiths at me and point out that clerics say this.. clerics say that... I DONT CARE... they are not Drs. Do you call a cleric to inform them that your electricity went out?

[Veiled Princess 1]

Get over yourself. my questions have been explicitly about why would you go get a clerics advise on this over getting the advice from a dr for a medical procedure (provided there was one). I originally used the word priest.. but since you first objection over it, i changed the word to fit your comfort. you have yet to answer the question. I do not care if your profit said corrective surgery was ok or not, i do not care if he condoned it for the one woman you gave reference to. I have asked for YOUR opinion on whether you think it wise to ask a book scholar or an actual practicing physician if there is a MEDICAL reason for having your genitals cut apart because someone other than a DR thinks maybe you should. And if there is NO medical reason (correcting urinary blockage, etc) then why are there a disproportionate # of women reported to have undergone the procedure? And take a look at the places that do it.. regardless of religion (I dont care, but you do) it is not just Afriaca that practices FGM. The links to Dr's offices here are plastic surgeons working to correct minor cosmetic defects (removal of clitoral hood vs removal of hood, #######, #######).

you are not "helping" me understand anything since you will not answer the question. Why do you condone FGM?

http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/intcam/femgen/fgm1.htm

there's a link that explains a little more about it. not the words "ritual" are used quite often here... note there is just a small blurb at the bottom regarding any of this to do with religion.

my stance is that if there is NO medical reason what so ever... why allow it to propogate? And if there is a reason.. see a Dr... you throw hadiths at me and point out that clerics say this.. clerics say that... I DONT CARE... they are not Drs. Do you call a cleric to inform them that your electricity went out?

First of all, I am not under myself

Secondly, I already stated that the only reason I commented about this was because someone else brought religion into it. I agree that it's not something to do with religion. The reason I "throw hadiths" at you is because I'm supporting my argument that it's not required in my religion as someone stated or implied.

Found this on MEMRI TV, regarding FGM. The debate is between an FGM advocate Dr. Wahdan and an anti-FGM advocate Dr. Zarrar. Dr. Wahdan argues that women who are easily aroused should have their ####### partially removed; he argues that removing it entirely would be unislamic. Dr. Zarrar disagreeses, arguing it is wrong in all circumstances.

I agree, if there's no medical reason then don't have it done.

I would consult my faith in anything... when I am sick, I don't take medicine with alcohol in it since it's forbidden by my faith. I inform my doctor that I won't take it and she accomdates my religious beliefs and finds something more suitable for me (probably helps somewhat, that she shares my beliefs). So yes, if I had a medical problem, I would consult both.... my doctor and my faith. If it's something I can't find myself then I would consult a scholar that I trust on the matter.

Is that what you wanted?

Why does every thread on VJ have to turn into a religious debate these days?

It depends on the reason why it is done..... if it's because some stupid man doesn't like the fact that "his women" have a healthy sexual appetite then NO!

But if it's a matter of correcting a deformity then yes. You men run to the doctor everytime any little stress in your life messes up your "flow" but we can't have something corrected if it is obstructing our pleasure? Get a life.

Why would he say no if she was messed up down there? That would just be cruel.

How does the priest know again if it's "messes up" down there? Wouldn't that be the area for a prefessional doctor to decide after full examination?

Why are you justifying a brutal practice as this?

I think I stated my opinion here....