"The Religion of Peace"

[PlatyPius 5]

Ok, so I admit that I know a little about the Koran, but very little about the actual societies of many Islamic countries. I keep hearing that Islam is a "religion of peace". When those words are used here (VJ), they're usually uttered by one of the Mean Sisters right before they rip out your jugular because you dared to have an opinion that wasn't Pro-Islam. So, I've started paying more attention to current events.....

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan - The government will propose amending Pakistan's rape laws to remove the nearly impossible burden of proof on victims and to protect them from retaliatory charges of adultery, a ruling party lawmaker said Tuesday.

...

Under Islamic law adopted by Pakistan in 1979, a woman must produce four Muslim witnesses to prove she was raped.

The proposal would end that requirement and increase the burden of proof on a person accusing a woman of adultery. Currently, a woman who claims she was raped but fails to prove her case can be convicted of adultery or having sex outside marriage.

...

Under Islamic, or Shariah, law, women can be sentenced to death by stoning if found guilty of having sex outside of marriage, although the usual sentence is life in prison.

...

Musharraf, a moderate and top U.S. ally in the war on terrorism, signed an amendment last month allowing women awaiting charges to be released on bail — his first change to the Islamic laws.

...

"Neither Parliament nor anyone else has the authority to remove or change laws of God," said Hafiz Hussain Ahmed, a prominent figure in the Mutahida Majlis-e-Amal or United Action Forum opposition coalition.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14138349/

Ah yes... I can see why it's called the religion of peace now. Hold your peace and you won't be stoned to death for being raped. Very progressive. And peaceful.

Too bad I didn't start researching sooner.... I could already have a fully formed prejudice by now, rather than just a mild distaste based on the some of the posts I've read here. (Thanks to the Mean Sisters for demonstrating what Islamic people are REALLY like!)

[Tim and Bethanie 1]

Ok, so I admit that I know a little about the Koran, but very little about the actual societies of many Islamic countries. I keep hearing that Islam is a "religion of peace". When those words are used here (VJ), they're usually uttered by one of the Mean Sisters right before they rip out your jugular because you dared to have an opinion that wasn't Pro-Islam. So, I've started paying more attention to current events.....

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan - The government will propose amending Pakistan's rape laws to remove the nearly impossible burden of proof on victims and to protect them from retaliatory charges of adultery, a ruling party lawmaker said Tuesday.

...

Under Islamic law adopted by Pakistan in 1979, a woman must produce four Muslim witnesses to prove she was raped.

The proposal would end that requirement and increase the burden of proof on a person accusing a woman of adultery. Currently, a woman who claims she was raped but fails to prove her case can be convicted of adultery or having sex outside marriage.

...

Under Islamic, or Shariah, law, women can be sentenced to death by stoning if found guilty of having sex outside of marriage, although the usual sentence is life in prison.

...

Musharraf, a moderate and top U.S. ally in the war on terrorism, signed an amendment last month allowing women awaiting charges to be released on bail — his first change to the Islamic laws.

...

"Neither Parliament nor anyone else has the authority to remove or change laws of God," said Hafiz Hussain Ahmed, a prominent figure in the Mutahida Majlis-e-Amal or United Action Forum opposition coalition.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14138349/

Ah yes... I can see why it's called the religion of peace now. Hold your peace and you won't be stoned to death for being raped. Very progressive. And peaceful.

Too bad I didn't start researching sooner.... I could already have a fully formed prejudice by now, rather than just a mild distaste based on the some of the posts I've read here. (Thanks to the Mean Sisters for demonstrating what Islamic people are REALLY like!)

Is rape generally committed in front of an audience?

[PlatyPius 5]

Apparently so. It's the duty of all good men to gather and witness it for the good of all involved.

[Jenn! 918]

Too bad I didn't start researching sooner.... I could already have a fully formed prejudice by now, rather than just a mild distaste based on the some of the posts I've read here. (Thanks to the Mean Sisters for demonstrating what Islamic people are REALLY like!)

I would suggest that you not form an opinion on an entire religion based upon posts on a website.

[PlatyPius 5]

Well, there are news articles as well.....

For the record, my post was slightly sarcastic.... pointing out what fine representatives of Islam some people are. They're usually the loudest, too.

I look at Islam the same way I do Christianity... It isn't the religion I have a problem with, it's some of its' followers.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The arab world would have been better off had the arabs not been overthrown by the mamluks (their own slaves) in the middle ages. Up until that point, the arab world was a world leader in mathematics and the sciences - for example.

Edited August 2, 2006 by erekose

[Jenn! 918]

I look at Islam the same way I do Christianity... It isn't the religion I have a problem with, it's some of its' followers.

Well, I can't argue with that. There are bad people in every religion.

It surprises me that this is law in Pakistan. I thought Pakistan's laws were largely secular.

[PlatyPius 5]

The news article mentions that Pakistan's laws are a combination of Islamic Law (Shariah) and British Common Law. Guess which one the rape law falls under....

[Identity 0]

It's ironic that islam is known as the religion of peace; whereas with Christianity, Jesus said, "I come not to bring peace; but a sword."

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Cian,

Check out the following sites. They will freak you out.

http://www.askimam.org/

http://www.islam.tc/ask-imam/index.php

http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ln=eng

[PlatyPius 5]

Ok, I'll remain an infidel, thanks.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

What I'm curious of is that if none of this stuff is in the religious texts how is it the 'religion' itself that is to blame for fundamentalism? I say this of course, with little more than a lay person's knowledge of Islam.

I don't know about anyone else, but it seems to me that the tendency towards fundamentalism stems from cultural and social factors rather than specific religious doctrines.

That would make this about a of cultures (as has been suggested before), rather than religions. To say otherwise, I think does a disservice to the many moderate muslims around the world.

Edited August 2, 2006 by erekose

[M+S 0]

I really hate religious debate and defending alot of time I come here and read only and alot of time I feel very sad and disappointed ..But Honestly I can understand every one's post here simply because even people who think really bad abotu Muslims and Arabs it's not thier fault it's the Muslims themselves mistakes ..You wanna know why ..because they are really a very bad representative of thier religion ..I mean If I was non Muslim and look and see the news everyday I would hate every single Muslim walkin in the country where I live in...You wanna know why because you see stupidity happening in Bakistan and Afghanistan and all these carps every where ..kidnapping people and have thier head cover and slutter them infront of a TV and declaim they are fighting for GOD and all these things ...The article you mentioned above is very true about Pakistan and I heard worse than this happening there ...I remmber i read a story in our national Journal abotu a girl get raped and the goverment punished her by killing her and her brother was killed too . OMG how insane is this ...BUT this is AGAINT ISLAM ......Those country including mine even those countries that look more open all thier laws are not form islam !!!!

I mean in the Islamic world now no one follow Islam none and those who declaim..so are nothing but a bunch of Radicals and terrorist ..

because in islam in the Qura'n if you killed anyone even is he doesn't believe in GOD at all..YOU GO TO HELL...

so what abotu bombing people and killing innocent people..MY GOD people in islam if you are in WAR and captured some soldiers from the other party side it's against ISLAM and you GO to hell if you ever killed or hurt those soldiers " form the enemy side" by any way!!!!

and you think it's not a religion of peace ...

I was born Muslim and i grow up as one ..But I read alot and of course in my way of reading there was alot of ####### books I found from KSA that tells you we will all go to hell..In these days everyone everyone even those who never read Qur'an " I mean Muslims" talk abotu religion and advice you ...IT"S BS

IF you wanna know abotu Islam you must talk to someone who is Educated and has at least PHD in Islam and you can of course read the Qura'an but you gonna need some one to tell you the miracle behind the menaing of its words...

So to all who think bad about Muslims ...I understand you

[Ban Hammer 13,644]

Cian,

Check out the following sites. They will freak you out.

http://www.askimam.org/

http://www.islam.tc/ask-imam/index.php

http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ln=eng

after reading some of the questions in the above, it seems that you can't even fart without first asking if such is permissible.

[Fischkoepfin 1]

What I'm curious of is that if none of this stuff is in the religious texts how is it the 'religion' itself that is to blame for fundamentalism? I say this of course, with little more than a lay person's knowledge of Islam.

I don't know about anyone else, but it seems to me that the tendency towards fundamentalism stems from cultural and social factors rather than specific religious doctrines.

That would make this about a of cultures (as has been suggested before), rather than religions. To say otherwise, I think does a disservice to the many moderate muslims around the world.

I totally agree. There are fundamentalist tendencies in other religions including Christianity today for which a similar argument could be made (think about the arguments stemming from the Old Testament concerning homosexuality and other issues). There are Christian groups who want to make Old Testament law national law or who argue that the founders were guided by Christian principles in writing the Constitution with the goal of enforcing so-called Christianic laws. Yet, many of us so-called Westerners disagree with those assumptions and would be horribly offended if we were judged by the relics of Old-Testament-laws in our countries.

Viewing the conflict in the Middle East as one of religions means regarding any Western involvement there as a Crusade aimed at crushing the other side. The whole idea of "holy war" conveys that the fight is not about politics or what have you but solely about showing which religion wins or is supposedly ideologically superior.

I also reject the idea of a culture clash because it presumes that different culture have to fight for dominance and that one culture is somehow superior to other cultures. Also by defining the conflict as either a clash of cultures or a religious war, one elides the real causes (imperialism past and present, Cold War polarization, globalization), etc. that lie behind all the ideological rhetoric and that coould actually point to a solution.

It appears to me that the tendency we see right around the world is a return to nationalist, xenophobic, and exceptionalist ideologies. It's happening in the Middle East, in Russia, in Poland, and in the US (to name just a few hot-spots of right-wing ideological fervor). The only thing to do about it is to fight the these ideologies in the places we live rather than complaining about the rise of these ideologies (which as mentioned before masks the truth anyway) abroad.