Attitudes of Posters

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

I disagree. I don't think they type of rudeness/condescension pushbrk practices is a TOS violation, and thus not ban-worthy.

The solution is simple. How do you handle a bully? You keep bloodying their nose until they realize people aren't going to take their ####### anymore. As long as people fawn over him and meekly put up with the rudeness, he will continue. And why not? People tolerate it, so he has no incentive to change.

More people will just give up rather than fight.

[mox 298]

Really, being rude won't get the point across nor will it gain you a good reputation. You're going to end up looking just as stupid (if not worse) as the 'offender'.

You're arguing from the false assumption that I'm somehow trying to build *any* kind of repuation. I'm like Popeye man, "I yam what I yam." I'm certainly open to anything that works better. Polite engagement rarely works.

[LIFE'SJOURNEY 970]

What bugs me the most when somebody will PM for a particular piece of information and after I've messaged them back, a few days later they'll PM again saying, 'Hey, I lost that link/form/etc--can you find it for me again?" Uh, no. I will not do your work for you.

I also think people just need to grow a thicker skin. This is a free advice forum and a great one at that. Things are not always going to be sugar-coated for you.

When I first joined VJ, I admit I asked my fair share of stupid questions but I appreciate everyone who's taken the time to reply with sound advice and support.

I try not to be rude but it's hard when someone will post an OP like 'My girlfriend was EWI, she was deported and she signed a statement saying she would not enter for the next 5 years but she entered EWI again--can she stay if I marry her?" I mean, seriously?

Some of the truly expert members are rude but it is forgiven because you know their advice is accurate.

This is something I posted earlier--

I know the general attitude here on VJ is that the USC petitioner should do everything including the filling up the forms, paying the bills, organizing the information. Of course, it's a personal choice but it is also terribly patronising to beneficiaries like me who take an active interest in the entire visa process since it affects our lives too. We're not all completely incompetent, despite the general prevalent attitude. I am absolutely capable of reading the forms, interpreting and answering the questions correctly. I have no trouble with the English language and can comprehend the simple instructions written clearly on the form. When in need, I ask our dear VJ members for help. So far, I've pretty much done everything on my own, right from paying the AOS/IV bills to filling out the forms, making the cover letters, etc. -- both during the USCIS stage, and now through NVC. My husband does help, of course, (such as his tax transcripts/AOS forms) but he prefers to leave the paperwork to me. I'm good with forms, completely obsessive and #######-retentive about paperwork. Besides, I have a lot more time on my hands that he does.

Our delay (due to a ridiculous AOS RFE) is actually because my husband overlooked what I marked out explicitly for him. I can understand if the beneficiary is extremely busy or his/her English is not strong enough, or doesn't have access to a computer/printer to have a little help but to insist that USC petitioners should do ALL of it or to imply that they are not invested enough in the process is more than a little unfair and condescending.

Sorry to vent and go off on a tangent--this just bugs me tremendously.

If your command of the english language is okay, then I don't think the statement(I know the general attitude here on VJ is that the USC petitioner should do everything including the filling up the forms, paying the bills, organizing the information) was being directed to anyone who has an understanding of the english language. When you see someone who's command of the english language is limited, trying to do this process you do wonder where is the USC in this.

Edited March 22, 2010 by LIFE'SJOURNEY

[msd 3]

I only ever get annoyed when I read "Why is the USC not here asking this question?" as if somebody needs to justify why the beneficiary is doing the paperwork. There could be many reasons and I always kind of think those people are trying to make them feel bad...

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

You're arguing from the false assumption that I'm somehow trying to build *any* kind of repuation. I'm like Popeye man, "I yam what I yam." I'm certainly open to anything that works better. Polite engagement rarely works.

Understand.

I can honestly say that I've never met a seriously well-intended 'advice giver' who couldn't be trained. Sometimes it just takes the right kind of teacher, I would reckon.

I'd follow this up by saying there's a distinction between those who REALLY want to help and those who just want to feel important. In that regard, I've met several and there's really nothing membership can do about them if Admin wants to let them run wild.

If you are speaking of 'post boosters', IMO the best to do with them is just follow the errant post with correct advice, and otherwise - ignore them. They'll go away after their case is processed.

I surely don't have a 100% fool-proof method for dealing with anyone. These are just my opinions on what works for me.

[Lorenzoid 12]

I'm fairly new here on VJ. While I see what you mean about long-time members sometimes being curt and even sarcastic in their replies (such as the reply "have a nice trip home" to the person who apparently ill-advisedly waived his right to a deportation hearing), I know that the problem is common to on-line discussion forums of all types and is not unique to VJ. The fact is that in any on-line forum, there will always be new people joining and asking the same questions that have been asked and answered many times. The fact is that no matter how prominent the "Search" and "FAQ" features, people will often ask first and search later. There's simply nothing that can be done about that, and I think it's human nature for long-time members to occasionally lose patience or come off sounding condescending. I simply try to understand what causes it and look past it. Nobody here is getting paid for their advice, and with few exceptions, any reply from someone with some knowledge is better than no reply, even if the reply comes off sounding a bit curt and condescending. I don't expect the amateur immigration law buffs on here to act with the kind of detached professionalism that I would of an actual immigration lawyer. While it sure would be nice if everyone acted professionally, I don't expect it in the on-line forums I belong to. I expect the opposite and allow myself to be pleasantly surprised when the replies do sound helpful and professional.

[Fandango 1,439]

This topic comes up time and again, and it always makes me chuckle cos it's the same old same old.

At the end of the day, this is a member driven site. And I've read various sites that would give 'rude' a new definition. I don't think we need to mollycoddle n00bs...if they ask a stupid q, or don't read the guides, or don't read the pinned topics, etc...then they're kinda asking for it imo. Don't come here expecting to be spoon-fed your petition from start to finish.

Would you rather the 'vets' didn't answer q's? *shrug*

I say, suck it up, put it in perspective, and all will be fine.

Edited March 22, 2010 by Happy Bunny

[ally and moh 3]

Maybe this is not the right place to say this, but I was reading and it has been on my mind.

We also have VJers who belong to other forums and go on those forums under the same screen names (not smart) and make fun of people on here. I know because I found my situation (as well as others) being discussed in a bad way on another forum recently. It made me want to stay away from here at first. But I realize that this was only 2 or 3 people in a group of hundreds, and most have been very helpful.

Don't you just love simple-minded people who have nothing better to do with their time?

[TBoneTX 45,290]

A lot of the "perception" can be attributed to the impersonal nature of the Internet -- there's no chance to evaluate body language, tone of voice, etc. If I read a post that initially strikes me as abrasive, I'll read it again, pretending that the writer has a brotherly/avuncular/buddy-like arm around the person whom he's addressing, to see if the tone of the message changes for me. If it does, I'll extend the benefit of the doubt.

Regarding the issue of "advice from members" versus "paying for lawyers," and that some members here may be perceived as arrogant or "God's gift," how recently have we considered that many LAWYERS think of themselves as "God's gift" -- and their clients are paying high fees to put up with that stuff? In comparison, occasional "arrogance" on VJ perhaps becomes a little more palatable.

Some VJ posters may need to be gently coaxed/counseled, and some react only when they're kicked in the tail. It's challenging for ANY of us to know who's who, especially from someone's first post. Most members here are likely quite tolerant, except when their sensibilities are offended (see earlier messages from others in this thread). For me, someone's being blindsided by life is one thing; someone's making his bed and then objecting to lying in it is quite another. Actions have consequences.

And, occasionally we'll get a man-child who goes crying to mommy every time he's "offended," either on his own behalf or (often worse) on someone else's. These members are thankfully few & far between. If you can't stand up for yourself or can't defend your expressed opinion, then refrain from opining until you CAN do those things.

I'm enjoying this thread because of so many in-depth comments from thoughtful, literate posters, prominent among whom (as always) are sachinky, mox, & JohnnyQuest, si man.

Edited March 22, 2010 by TBoneTX

[mox 298]

Maybe this is not the right place to say this, but I was reading and it has been on my mind.

We also have VJers who belong to other forums and go on those forums under the same screen names (not smart) and make fun of people on here. I know because I found my situation (as well as others) being discussed in a bad way on another forum recently. It made me want to stay away from here at first. But I realize that this was only 2 or 3 people in a group of hundreds, and most have been very helpful.

Don't you just love simple-minded people who have nothing better to do with their time?

If you're talking about expatgroups.com, yeah ain't that just a "special" little place? You might be interested in knowing that Ewok actually owns both expatsgroups and VJ, although he keeps the groups completely separate. If you're finding yourself "attacked" from expats, send him an email through the expats contact form. (if you contact him through VJ he'll pretend not to be the same person and tell you to contact the expats admin, and maybe that's for legal reasons I don't know.)

It's a nasty little place, Expats. It was supposed to be an exercise in hands-off moderation, but all it really is anymore is a place for trolls to gather. I wish he'd shut it down.

[sachinky 465]

If your command of the english language is okay, then I don't think the statement(I know the general attitude here on VJ is that the USC petitioner should do everything including the filling up the forms, paying the bills, organizing the information) was being directed to anyone who has an understanding of the english language. When you see someone who's command of the english language is limited, trying to do this process you do wonder where is the USC in this.

Yeah, use the one clumsy and awkward sentence in my rant to prove your point that I have a limited grasp of the English language. I don't exactly use Nobel-prize winning prose to post on VJ and neither does anybody else. Evidently, I'm fluent in the language--surely, you got that from my post, if nothing else. That said, one's command of the language would have to be more than "limited" if one can't understand simple things such as name, date of birth, address, parent's name, spouse's address, etc. and write them down. I am more than capable of writing down my residence history / employment history and such -- I don't need my husband to fill them out for me. None of the forms are complicated (apart from the slightly confusing I-864) and someone with even a rudimentary understanding of the language can fill them out.

Unless being a USC automatically means one has superlative English language skills or special form-filling talents, your point is moot. Maybe I should mock your use of irrelevant punctuation marks to prove my point?

I'm not knocking anyone who needs help--but I'm tired of being told indirectly that my husband doesn't care enough or isn't invested in the process -- otherwise he'd be here asking the questions.

[sara..... 371]

Maybe this is not the right place to say this, but I was reading and it has been on my mind.

We also have VJers who belong to other forums and go on those forums under the same screen names (not smart) and make fun of people on here. I know because I found my situation (as well as others) being discussed in a bad way on another forum recently. It made me want to stay away from here at first. But I realize that this was only 2 or 3 people in a group of hundreds, and most have been very helpful.

Don't you just love simple-minded people who have nothing better to do with their time?

meh i was given a heads up once about what was being said about me on expats...it was about something i said but in the end it really didnt make any difference to me at first i was upset but then i thought.....you have to think of the mentality and emotional maturity level of the people that enjoy this kind of ####### and go from there......kind of look at it as people that have no sense of pride unless they are making fun or tearing someone else down to make them self feel better.....just be selective in what you allow to bother you.

just my opinion

sara

[TBoneTX 45,290]

It's a nasty little place, Expats. It was supposed to be an exercise in hands-off moderation, but all it really is anymore is a place for trolls to gather. I wish he'd shut it down.

A vehement si, man.

I have a limited grasp of the English language.

No, Dear, and anyone who implies otherwise is blind or misled. You're highly literate and a distinct asset to VJ, si man. Edited March 22, 2010 by TBoneTX

[ally and moh 3]

Thanks mox and sara. I lived in a small town full of those kind of people for 10 long years. My skin is pretty thick. But I admit I was a little shocked to see our VJ stories being mocked that way. We come here for support. I don't think of it confidential information by any means, but maybe just things that are near and dear to us.

I DID NOT and WILL NOT join that forum. If I can report it without joining... now there is a thought!

Thanks again!

[Darnell 8,478]

I dunno, I try NOT to be acerbic, most of the time. There are exceptions, and usually focused on specific individuals who have established a pattern of wanting to be spoonfed. 'Established a pattern' - usually a horrific pattern, as well. But I don't simply spew about it - I will write more than 10 words.