Pelosi: 'Once we kick through this door,' more reform will follow

[Pooky 3,787]

Oh, so the party of no - no plan, no ideas, no clue - is off the hook. Interesting. The Democrats had to accommodate everyone from far left to center in order to construct a bill that can garner the votes needed. Had the GOP participated and supported provisions that are in the bill that they have advocated for years, then we may have a better product today. Instead, they made it their mission to make the health care reform effort - any effort - Obama's Waterloo. They wanted nothing from the health care reform process other than inflicting political damage to the Democrats and the President, the country be damned. But you're gonna let them off the hook. Brilliant.

Not off the hook. Just Utterly Inconsequential.

I completely agree with the no plan, no ideas, no clue on the Republican side. I've made no bones about that. But at the end of the day, despite the GOP not being in a position to put up any substantive opposition, the Democrats have been falling over themselves to ruin an already flawed Bill, in an attempt by almost everyone on the Blue side of the aisle to get as many sweeteners and opt-outs as they can squeeze into the damn thing.

The Bill being considered (before any changes are made to water it down even further) goes nowhere near far enough to sort the problems we face. Yet the protracted "negotiation" process in the Democrat caucus to gain enough Democrat votes to pass this thing has swung public opinion so far away from where it was in 2008 that the Democrat party faces an absolute disaster in November that will preclude any sort of incremental change to improve this mess in the foreseeable future. And you can bet your life (literally) that the Republicans, should November go their way, will do nothing to improve it.

So no, blaming the GOP for ruining this Bill just won't cut it. They couldn't if they had tried. The Democrats did that all by themselves. The legislation doesn't go far enough and the Democrats got too greedy for the public to like where they're going. November will show exactly how bad the public reaction is.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Not off the hook. Just Utterly Inconsequential.

I completely agree with the no plan, no ideas, no clue on the Republican side. I've made no bones about that. But at the end of the day, despite the GOP not being in a position to put up any substantive opposition, the Democrats have been falling over themselves to ruin an already flawed Bill, in an attempt by almost everyone on the Blue side of the aisle to get as many sweeteners and opt-outs as they can squeeze into the damn thing.

The Bill being considered (before any changes are made to water it down even further) goes nowhere near far enough to sort the problems we face. Yet the protracted "negotiation" process in the Democrat caucus to gain enough Democrat votes to pass this thing has swung public opinion so far away from where it was in 2008 that the Democrat party faces an absolute disaster in November that will preclude any sort of incremental change to improve this mess in the foreseeable future. And you can bet your life (literally) that the Republicans, should November go their way, will do nothing to improve it.

So no, blaming the GOP for ruining this Bill just won't cut it. They couldn't if they had tried. The Democrats did that all by themselves. The legislation doesn't go far enough and the Democrats got too greedy for the public to like where they're going. November will show exactly how bad the public reaction is.

No argument from me on this. The bill doesn't go far enough but it is, at the same time, the biggest step forward that we've seen in decades. It ain't perfect - far from it. But I tend to believe that many of the provisions in this bill will provide a much needed course correction that can be built on. I've said for the longest time that I've been less than happy with the way the Democrats negotiated away - amongst themselves - too much of what would be sorely needed.

[Pooky 3,787]

No argument from me on this. The bill doesn't go far enough but it is, at the same time, the biggest step forward that we've seen in decades. It ain't perfect - far from it. But I tend to believe that many of the provisions in this bill will provide a much needed course correction that can be built on. I've said for the longest time that I've been less than happy with the way the Democrats negotiated away - amongst themselves - too much of what would be sorely needed.

My point here is that the damage the Democrats have inflicted on their own prospects in November, with all the finagling and deal-making done in order to get enough votes within their own caucus, will at least preclude them having enough votes to pass reforms of any kind, and may render them in a position that they are not the majority party in Congress. Where will that leave this legislation?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

My point here is that the damage the Democrats have inflicted on their own prospects in November, with all the finagling and deal-making done in order to get enough votes within their own caucus, will at least preclude them having enough votes to pass reforms of any kind, and may render them in a position that they are not the majority party in Congress. Where will that leave this legislation?

Hard to predict, isn't it? But you can't sit back and do nothing - which happens to be the alternative - just because the political prospects may not be as sunny as one would wish. Personally, I think the damage at the polls to the Democrats would be far larger if this bill fails to pass. Failure to pass this bill would make any meaningful reform effort impossible for at least another two years but realistically for at least another decade or two at which point our existing health care system would bring the entire economy down.

Edited March 21, 2010 by Mr. Big Dog

[Pooky 3,787]

Hard to predict, isn't it? But you can't sit back and do nothing - which happens to be the alternative - just because the political prospects may not be as sunny as one would wish. Personally, I think the damage at the polls to the Democrats would be far larger if this bill fails to pass. Failure to pass this bill would make any meaningful reform effort impossible for at least another two years but realistically for at least another decade or two at which point our existing health care system would bring the entire economy down.

That depends on whether you think the compromises being made will strengthen the controls on insurance premiums, choice of policy, etc., or not.

For the good parts that remain in this Bill, there is vast scope for things to get worse for the American electorate.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

For the good parts that remain in this Bill, there is vast scope for things to get worse for the American electorate.

Like what?

[DEDixon 39]

Thank God for Nancy Pelosi!!! Three cheers for Nancy!!!

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Why do you put Liberal in that list (or Progressive for that matter), yet not conservative?

In this country, at least, the (lower case) terms liberal and progressive are neither pejorative, nor evocative of repressive government. They are the natural alternative to conservativism. You do believe in having alternatives, don't you? Unless you actually prefer authoritative government of one dogmatic persuasion only?

None of those terms are pejorative. They just describe a philosophy where the collective good supersedes the desires of any one individual. History has shown that each and everyone of those movements, while initially describing themselves as "democratic", end up as rule by committee, dominated by a charismatic individual, or individuals.

The terms Liberal and Progressive are synonymous, and the movement had actively sought the support of Communists, and Nazis, in the first half of the 20th century.

[dalegg 143]

I've been out of the loop for a few weeks now. Why is this significant? Didn't the house already pass a health care bill? Is this the Senate's version or something the Senate has already said they are going to vote for? Last I checked nobody was really all that concerned about a healthcare bill passing the house.

[DEDixon 39]

White House announces executive order on abortion