Not So Fast: Landmark Legal Foundation Ready To File Lawsuit Against Obama Administration Over Health Care Bill.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Well if Obama signs a bill that violates the constitution in the way it was passed, he is in direct violation of his oath of office and would be grounds for impeachment/removal from office.

The same goes for Pelosi as well being the speaker of the house and anyone in the administration who cooperated in allowing such things to happen.

Obama himself has said he doesn't really care about procedures (i/e the constitution) and says any vote that's yes is a vote for health reform...

I think Obama knows a bit more about Constitutional law than you or I do. But keep dreaming that wet dream.

[JimandChristy 1,689]

I think Obama knows a bit more about Constitutional law than you or I do. But keep dreaming that wet dream.

I not sure if I'm on the right lines here but if the liberals are using the "Deem and Pass" process then both parties have a huge history of breaking constitutional law!

[Obama 2012 1,714]

I think Obama knows a bit more about Constitutional law than you or I do. But keep dreaming that wet dream.

Are you trying to troll or what?

Do you honestly think they care about the rule of law? Please, both parties have done things to bend/break the rules plenty of times.

The fact of the matter is, what is going to happen tomorrow if they do it the way Pelosi says they're going to do it, then it is indeed unconstitutional.

[JimandChristy 1,689]

Are you trying to troll or what?

Do you honestly think they care about the rule of law? Please, both parties have done things to bend/break the rules plenty of times.

The fact of the matter is, what is going to happen tomorrow if they do it the way Pelosi says they're going to do it, then it is indeed unconstitutional.

How can it be unconstitutional if both parties have already done this so many times in the past? Seems to me if it has been used and it was accepted and passed then surely the process is constitutional? Where was the uproar, screams and complaints about impeaching the President of the USA then?

Edited March 20, 2010 by JimandChristy

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

I not sure if I'm on the right lines here but if the liberals are using the "Deem and Pass" process then both parties have a huge history of breaking constitutional law!

Yep. It is about time both parties either get back to following the laws of the land, or get in the unemployment lines, like everybody else.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

How can it be unconstitutional if both parties have already done this so many times in the past? Seems to me if it has been used and it was accepted and passed then surely the process is constitutional? Where was the uproar, screams and complaints about impeaching the President of the USA then?

Just because it's been done before, doesn't it make it right.

The senate health care bill has never been voted on by the house, nor has it been brought to the floor for debate. One house cannot pass a bill and then the other just "deem" it passed without a yay or nay vote. The bills must be identical and agreed upon by both houses.

If the 'deem and pass' is used, especially on a bill like this, then we might as well has Pelosi take a big dump on the constitution.

[JimandChristy 1,689]

Just because it's been done before, doesn't it make it right.

The senate health care bill has never been voted on by the house, nor has it been brought to the floor for debate. One house cannot pass a bill and then the other just "deem" it passed without a yay or nay vote. The bills must be identical and agreed upon by both houses.

If the 'deem and pass' is used, especially on a bill like this, then we might as well has Pelosi take a big dump on the constitution.

Irrelevant now, Dems have said they are not going to use "deem and pass".

[scandal 951]

Well if Obama signs a bill that violates the constitution in the way it was passed, he is in direct violation of his oath of office and would be grounds for impeachment/removal from office.

I'm not going to get into your debate about the healthcare vote tomorrow, or Deem and Pass.

I did just want to address this point however.

The Oath of office is to uphold the Constitution, that is correct. A gross ethical and legal violation by the President (e.g. Nixon's attempt to subvert the Department of Justice in the Saturday Night Massacre) would certainly rise to the level of an impeachable offense.

However it is an inherent part of our system of government to have Congress pass bills and Presidents sign them into law, only to then have them challenged and found unconstitutional by the federal courts. That is - a President signing a bill which is later found to be unconstitutional is not in and of itself an unconstitutional act by that President or by that Congress. Indeed, it is NOT unconstitutional at that moment of signing. It only becomes unconstitutional at the moment a federal court (and upon appeal, ultimately the US Supreme Court) says it is.

The courts determine the constitutionality of our laws. Not Congress. Not the President. And certainly not anonymous posters on Internet message boards. Thank lawdly lawd for that.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The Oath of office is to uphold the Constitution, that is correct. A gross ethical and legal violation by the President (e.g. Nixon's attempt to subvert the Department of Justice in the Saturday Night Massacre) would certainly rise to the level of an impeachable offense.

However it is an inherent part of our system of government to have Congress pass bills and Presidents sign them into law, only to then have them challenged and found unconstitutional by the federal courts. That is - a President signing a bill which is later found to be unconstitutional is not in and of itself an unconstitutional act by that President or by that Congress. Indeed, it is NOT unconstitutional at that moment of signing. It only becomes unconstitutional at the moment a federal court (and upon appeal, ultimately the US Supreme Court) says it is.

The courts determine the constitutionality of our laws. Not Congress. Not the President.

Please, do not inject facts into the debate. Panic is the hip thing of the moment. So let's all panic a little.

Are you trying to troll or what?

Do you honestly think they care about the rule of law? Please, both parties have done things to bend/break the rules plenty of times.

The fact of the matter is, what is going to happen tomorrow if they do it the way Pelosi says they're going to do it, then it is indeed unconstitutional.

Trolling is what you do with this thread. Trolling is all the forces of yesterday have left to stand on.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Irrelevant now, Dems have said they are not going to use "deem and pass".

Not according to Steny Hoyer, or don't you understand the concept of "deem and pass".

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Not according to Steny Hoyer, or don't you understand the concept of "deem and pass".

Take a deep breath and peruse the news. The sun will come up tomorrow and on Monday and Tuesday and...

'Deem and pass' out, overhaul to get direct vote

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Not according to Steny Hoyer, or don't you understand the concept of "deem and pass".

You be correct:

Hoyer: 'Clearly, we believe we have the votes'

House Democratic leaders said Saturday they believe they have the votes to proceed with their healthcare legislation.

House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) confirmed that Democrats will hold separate votes on the Senate healthcare bill and a series of fixes to it under the budget reconciliation rules.

When asked if he believed Democrats had the votes to pursue such a strategy, Hoyer said he believed they did.

"Well, the whip is here," Hoyer said in remarks at the Capitol, referring to House Majority Whip James Clybyurn (D-S.C.), next to whom he was standing. "Clearly, we believe we have the votes."

Hoyer said he and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), after consulting with Rep. Louise Slaughter (D-N.Y.), the chairwoman of the House Rules Committee, decided to abandon the "deem and pass" strategy that House Democrats had been eyeing all week.

That strategy, which had drawn Republican protests, would have had the House vote on a rule that made a series of fixes to the Senate healthcare bill while also deeming the Senate bill to have passed the House.

The procedure appeared to lose Democrats several votes, though, and leaders quickly pivoted Saturday back to a strategy that would see two separate votes.

Hoyer said the House, when it meets Sunday afternoon, would vote on a rule, followed by two hours of debate on the reconciliation bill. After passing the reconciliation bill, Democrats will move to pass the Senate's healthcare bill.

"We expect to have the votes to pass the Senate bill, and it will then go to the president, and the reconciliation bill will go to the Senate," the majority leader said. "We have every reason to believe the Senate will pass that reconciliation bill."

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/88039-hoyer-clearly-we-believe-we-have-the-votes-

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Take a deep breath and peruse the news. The sun will come up tomorrow and on Monday and Tuesday and...

'Deem and pass' out, overhaul to get direct vote

I actually watched the Steny Hoyer press conference. Maybe he said it wrong, so I have to go by the press release, not his direct statement. Either way, how tomorrow proceeding go, doesn't matter. The fix is in, and the American dream just became a nightmare.

[scandal 951]

The fix is in, and the American dream just became a nightmare.

I'm truly inspired by your sense of optimism.

How did Ronald Reagan put it? "It's morning again in America." I'm glad to see you feel the same way.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

I'm truly inspired by your sense of optimism.

How did Ronald Reagan put it? "It's morning again in America." I'm glad to see you feel the same way.

So, Obama is Ronald Reagan reincarnate? Keep on eating that rainbow stew!