urgent help

[SunDrop 59]

Trying to think a little outside the box, but...

She has been told to try and get her daughter's US CRBA, and that if this is denied, she has to go with a K-2 for her. Therefore, if the USC's proof of citizenship is required in order to successfully obtain a CRBA, and he's not willing to provide this then submitting a CRBA without would cause it to be denied. She could then prove that had tried, has a denial and K-2 it is?

She is already out of the country of birth and residence of the USC parent. She took the child from The Philippines to Thailand. What could the Philippine or Thai courts do in terms of effectively 'emancipating' this child from it's USC parent, especially considering he hasn't objected to her taking the baby abroad for residence before?

For clarity sake, please note that I'm asking for ideas, not suggesting known options.

All the judgment of 'leaving baby behind' being a heinous crime - it seems you've maybe misread the OP's intentions. She was asking if in doing this, or effectively by creating a K-2 to follow situation, there would be a work-around on their current situation. Whilst I couldn't personally leave my daughter behind, even as a to-follow, we're talking about a very different set of cultural rules and expectations here. Anywhere that has a thriving 'takes a village to raise a child' society wouldn't consider this unusual. There are 1000s of children in the Philippines whose parents are working and living abroad, with grandparents or aunties raising them.

Edited March 20, 2010 by SunDrop

[FrancElsie 6]

Trying to think a little outside the box, but...

She has been told to try and get her daughter's US CRBA, and that if this is denied, she has to go with a K-2 for her. Therefore, if the USC's proof of citizenship is required in order to successfully obtain a CRBA, and he's not willing to provide this then submitting a CRBA without would cause it to be denied. She could then prove that had tried, has a denial and K-2 it is?

She is already out of the country of birth and residence of the USC parent. She took the child from The Philippines to Thailand. What could the Philippine or Thai courts do in terms of effectively 'emancipating' this child from it's USC parent, especially considering he hasn't objected to her taking the baby abroad for residence before?

For clarity sake, please note that I'm asking for ideas, not suggesting known options.

All the judgment of 'leaving baby behind' being a heinous crime - it seems you've maybe misread the OP's intentions. She was asking if in doing this, or effectively by creating a K-2 to follow situation, there would be a work-around on their current situation. Whilst I couldn't personally leave my daughter behind, even as a to-follow, we're talking about a very different set of cultural rules and expectations here. Anywhere that has a thriving 'takes a village to raise a child' society wouldn't consider this unusual. There are 1000s of children in the Philippines whose parents are working and living abroad, with grandparents or aunties raising them.

How do we know that he has not objected to taking the child abroad for residence before?? I didn't get the impression that the USC acknowledged the birth of this child by signing/acknowledging paternity on the birth certificate. Obviously, this child has a Passport...but, from which country? (Obviously not the USA...I'm guessing the Philippines.) Additionally, I am not sure that I agree completely with your last statement about "1000s of children." The parents living/working abroad would be here on a different type of Visa...Work visa. The K1.K2.K3.K4 is a Family Based Immigration process and the USCIS takes a dim view of parents from certain countries leaving a child behind. Finally, IF a fiance' wished to leave her child behind in order to come, it would make me begin to question the motivation behind such a move. I'm pretty sure that the Philippines are categorized as having "high-fraud" rates. This person wants to come for marriage reasons...no mention was made about working.

[FrancElsie 6]

I totally agree with everything that has been stated here, and changing to another embassy won't help your case, we are in the 20th century, everything is documented via computer. The next embassy will know what was asked of you from the first interview. You can not run away from this problem, it will have to be resolved. It looks as if the father isn't going to give permission, so you will have to deal with this in the best intrest of the child.

Actually, we are in the 21st Century!!! LOLOL

[Ann25 4]

Thank you all for your individual ideas.

First, this would be about my daughters father. If you are a father and mother, you always thinks for whats best with your child, no matter who your ex was, what happened between the two of you, its between the father and the child or the mother and the child. Possible reasons I could think why he wont do it, because he always tell me that we belong to him. For what, he has a wife already and I am not that person who wants to have a husband who has two wives. I also want and need of a loving husband that only have me in my life and of course accept my daughter. If to run for support, I already told him, we can have an agreement. For years already, I take care of my child. Maybe some people don't know how to think of others but only think for themselves. Well, yes, I can't do anything because its his decision.

About my child leaving. I asked that one because we thought of something but figured out still wont work. You know when things go wrong, you have to try to think some other options, some ways, but then trying to research, still wont work. Others may judge me for being bad of thinking or might leave my daughter. Heres one thing I tell you. Do you know how many filipinos work abroad and have their families or children left behind in PHilippines? I came here to Thailand to work and even I know it wont be easy for me to have my child and only me leave here in Thailand without knowing someone or have a family or relatives here, I still bring her here for us to be together. I may not be a perfect mom, but I have been alot with this that I always say, me and my daughter against the world. And one of the many reasons why my boyfriend loves me because how he sees me and my daughter together.

Yes we made some mistakes and I truly admits that. thinking like some other women from Philippines that were able to leave the country with their child without the fathers consent, would make us too, specially thinking that I was able to bring my daughter here in Thailand without the father in the picture. I am not that smart to know every thing in this world.

But anyways, thanks for your posts here. Some were harsh and judgmentals but thats what people think. Do you know what hurts alot, when you knew you found the man you want to spend the rest of your life but only at the end you would know you cant be together. I guess everyone heres are married to someone from different countries. You know that you would do everything for both of you to be together because you love each other and wants to be a family.

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

Ann,

Don't give-up hope. If your current relationship can endure this then nothing will break it.

Something you haven't mentioned is how frequent do you have contact with your ex? He can't prevent you from immigrating, only cause delays & additional expenses.

Here is a link to a member with a daughter who was denied CRBA but did later get IR-2 approval:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/user/43120-lostgurl-sophia/

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/179039-this-is-my-daughter-who-they-denied-us-passportbirth-certificate-for/page__p__2655437__fromsearch__1entry2655437

You might have to apply for CRBA, get denied and then show that in your K-Visa application.

I would suggest you contact your ex and try to discuss the CRBA via e-mail. If you can get e-mails from him where is acknowledges parentage and refuses to cooperate with the CRBA process it might help you, if not in the CRBA case then later when you have to explain why the CRBA failed.

Get an immigration lawyer, not a "service" but a real lawyer like someone along the lines of Marc Ellis.

Edited March 20, 2010 by Bob 4 Anna

[VanessaTony 3,567]

Here is the CRBA process for manilla: http://manila.usembassy.gov/wwwha003.html

At the time of the child's birth did he meet the residence requirements? (there's a link in there).

He also needs to prove parentage and there's another link (in the above link) for that.

It seems like from what everyone's written that the best thing is to transfer to Manilla where parentage out of wedlock isn't an issue... but he signed the birth certificate so doesn't that mean he's claimed the child?? Also, you wouldn't want it to count against you that you were denied a visa because you couldn't get parental consent and that you moved it to manilla to "evade the law". Perhaps your cousin can convince him it's the right thing to do? Perhaps the rest of the family can as well?

Good luck.

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

It seems like from what everyone's written that the best thing is to transfer to Manilla where parentage out of wedlock isn't an issue... but he signed the birth certificate so doesn't that mean he's claimed the child?? Also, you wouldn't want it to count against you that you were denied a visa because you couldn't get parental consent and that you moved it to manilla to "evade the law". Perhaps your cousin can convince him it's the right thing to do? Perhaps the rest of the family can as well?

Good luck.

In the Philippines even if the father signs the birth certificate the Mother has sole custody of any child born out of wedlock.

There have been cases where Philippine Citizens have gone to nearby countries that recognize US Divorce filed by Filipino Citizen (Philippines still requires lengthy annulment process as there is no divorce in PH) in order to get K-1 Visa entry. Even though the US Embassy in Manila will recognize the US Divorce & issue a K-1 Visa the PH gov't won't endorse the PH Citizen Visa for exit if they are still married by Ph Laws.

I guess it's a matter of point of view. Are you evading the law or are you moving the process to somewhere that the law is more favorable to your situation?

The Manila Embassy is used to dealing with cases of unwed mothers and they know PH law so they know there is no need for the bio-daddy's consent for the child to travel to the US.

Check my signature for links to the relevant sections of Philippine Family Law regarding this.

[pushbrk 12,883]

Once there's been a visa interview in Bangkok, there's really no longer any option to transfer the case to Manila. She'll need to comply with Bangkok's instructions.

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

Once there's been a visa interview in Bangkok, there's really no longer any option to transfer the case to Manila. She'll need to comply with Bangkok's instructions.

In that case maybe she could try to inform the Bangkok US Embassy of the Family Code in the Philippines which gives her sole custody of the child in question which should relieve the requirement of travel consent from the father (as he has no rights under Philippine law and apparently has already refused to aid in the CRBA process).

[SunDrop 59]

How do we know that he has not objected to taking the child abroad for residence before??

Because she's in Thailand? But to be precise, he hasn't successfully prevented her from taking the child abroad before.

Additionally, I am not sure that I agree completely with your last statement about "1000s of children." The parents living/working abroad would be here on a different type of Visa...Work visa.

There are 194 options to "abroad" other than the US...

The K1.K2.K3.K4 is a Family Based Immigration process and the USCIS takes a dim view of parents from certain countries leaving a child behind.

And you know this how? There is ample anecdotal evidence that this isn't the case, they're not adjudicating on the merit of the beneficiary's parenting decisions, but the relationship.

Finally, IF a fiance' wished to leave her child behind in order to come, it would make me begin to question the motivation behind such a move. I'm pretty sure that the Philippines are categorized as having "high-fraud" rates. This person wants to come for marriage reasons...no mention was made about working.

Moot point, since she was exploring the existence of an alternative, delayed immigration for the child, not abandonment.

Edited March 21, 2010 by SunDrop

[Ann25 4]

Thank you again specially for those who truly understands what we are going through.

Since its week-ends, its too hard to communicate with people. My boyfriend and I decided to go through this and never give up. The best after all because he is not giving up and he said, we will do this together.

Our thoughts with this since some have different ideas about this issues but one thing could really answer us are immigration lawyers. But we thought maybe we could call:

1. US embassy in Philippines - maybe in some ways, they know of other ways but im not sure if we could communicate with them.

2. US embassy in Thailand - dont know if could call or ask them but I remember so far that when I asked the one who gave me the interview about, what if I cant get hold with the father? She said, just try and if not, they will do it. NOt really sure what it meant as I wasn't able to ask her back because she was a strict and I was nervous at that time.

3. Seek an immigration lawyer.

4. Trying to communicate with my ex. Actually I sent him an email and he did reply now but he was asking for $10,000 dollars for my daughters fathers consent. But still trying to let him think that he will just do it even for my daughters sake. He knows his health and he almost died. So we dont know why he wont give it to my daughter.

Also, reading the instructions for Consular Report of Birth Abroad, it says that:

"Please note that Embassy of Bangkok can approve or deny CRBA applicants only for a children born in Thailand. If a child was born in another country, we can collect the application and supporting documents and forward them to the US embassy in that country for adjudication."

So if ever we file for the CRBA, do you think possible to do it in PHilippines? And if yes, if we just report it only showing the acknowledgement of the father and no other documents? do you think it would be possible even though it would be denied. Coz I remember too that the US embassy in Thailand said that if her application would be denied, we can go back to the K2 visa. I know its confusing thats why we are totally confused now.

Does anyone knows if its possible to call the US embassy here in Thailand or Philippines and ask more information for our situation?

[Audy_Rob 26]

Once there's been a visa interview in Bangkok, there's really no longer any option to transfer the case to Manila. She'll need to comply with Bangkok's instructions.

Exactly what I posted several weeks ago while you vehemently protested. I do not know why you continue to post contradicting your own earlier postings pretending to be omiscient. Sad and pitiful for Ann, truly is.

[pushbrk 12,883]

Exactly what I posted several weeks ago while you vehemently protested. I do not know why you continue to post contradicting your own earlier postings pretending to be omiscient. Sad and pitiful for Ann, truly is.

I disagreed with your assertions in that thread and still do but it had nothing to do with transferring a case after interview. Also, in that thread, the OP did not disclose that the child's father was a US Citizen. If you'll read carefully, the issue is that Bangkok won't issue a K2 visa for a child they think is entitled to US Citizenship until a CRBA is denied. If the CRBA is applied for and denied, they will issue the K2 visa without the father's permission, just as I said they would in the past thread.

[Ann25 4]

I disagreed with your assertions in that thread and still do but it had nothing to do with transferring a case after interview. Also, in that thread, the OP did not disclose that the child's father was a US Citizen. If you'll read carefully, the issue is that Bangkok won't issue a K2 visa for a child they think is entitled to US Citizenship until a CRBA is denied. If the CRBA is applied for and denied, they will issue the K2 visa without the father's permission, just as I said they would in the past thread.

I have a question for you. How did you know that Bangkok won't issue a K2 visa for a child they think is entitled to US citizenship until a CRBA is denied? Do you know where I can read that? Please let me know. THank you so much for the help.

[pushbrk 12,883]

I have a question for you. How did you know that Bangkok won't issue a K2 visa for a child they think is entitled to US citizenship until a CRBA is denied? Do you know where I can read that? Please let me know. THank you so much for the help.

I know it from what they told you as reported in this thread. This would not be exclusive to Bangkok though. It's an issue of protecting the rights of the child. If entitled to US Citizenship, that's the route to take. Visas are for foreigners.