The right way to mend immigration

[justashooter 430]

our plan is suitable for special interest groups, and is not likely to be enforced in it's entirety.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/17/AR2010031703115.html

no problem with secure identification. this is reasonable and prudent.

no problem with secure borders. willing to bring my own gear if they will give me a free fire zone.

no problem with an adjustment process for people who F1 into an advanced degree in USA. would still think it has to be employer sponsored on basis of no suitable USC candidates. note that this provision is also a concession to US university interests, in that it increases their potential revenue.

no problem with temporary visas for migrant workers, but do have a problem with "family unification" aspect. if the worker is to be temporary, no pregnant wives, little children, etc. many USC have gone overseas to work, myself included, without taking family in tow.

no problem with allowing illegals to declare, pay penalties, and go back to mexico to wait for a temporary work visa. community service does not work for me, as it seems to be a provision to allow for make-work to be substituted for penalties.

big problem with allowing illegals to declare, avoid fines through waiver (you know this will be built into the plan), and obtain green.

[NickD 203]

If they do legalized illegals, would demand a full refund for immigration fees, attorney costs, mileage, and the time spent traveling and filling out forms. Even at minimum wage that would be a big bundle of money. And not just for one, but two people.

Ha, can always demand, but getting even a cent back would be a miracle.

[mawilson 2,133]

If they came on a valid student visa, then I wouldn't be opposed to them having a chance for a green card. I just don't think that green cards should be handed out like candy after all most of us have been through to get our spouses/loved ones here. I spent 30 months getting my wife here and that was following the law.

A foreign PhD is more important to this country than your wife.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

A foreign PhD is more important to this country than your wife.

This is true.

[NickD 203]

Really, the only thing congress has to do, is to enforce the existing laws.

[scandal 951]

After 7 previous amnesties over 20+ years in which empty promises of future enforcement of laws were made and never kept, the only thing that ever did happen was that millions of illegal aliens have been rewarded for cheating, lying, committing fraud, etc., etc., by being given permanent residency and work authorization after illegally immigrating and then working illegally on top of that. Some deterrent, eh? They get to keep what they stole in the first place. I guess crime really does pay. If amnesty is such a deterrent then why does illegal immigration accelerate after every amnesty?

This is an absolute lie that these people are going to the "back of the line". This is nothing more than another mass blanket amnesty in which illegal aliens are rewarded for breaking laws that are not being enforced and promises that never get kept (except for the amnesty provisions).

I find it odd that there are still morons out there that still believe that things will be different this time around. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. How about some real "change"? How about enforcing the laws we already have on the books and fulfilling the promises that these same politicians made over the last 20+ years? That really would be "change".

Peejay, you have made your point regarding "the 7 previous amnesties" repeatedly on VJ in thread after thread. Any regular reader has heard it multiple times. In this post, you make it fairly succinctly and even convincingly UNTIL the usage of the word "morons" to refer to the amorphous group of all those who don't happen to agree with you.

Contrary to what you might believe, immigration reform like most controversial subjects of public policy is NOT a black and white issue of "Peejay is right and everyone else must be a moron for not agreeing with him". There are nuances and shadings to the debate. By labeling opponents of your view "morons" you have done nothing to strengthen your argument, and all you've done is alienated those who might want to reflect more deeply on your views and perhaps even come around to seeing things your way.

Catch some flies, man. Honey, not vinegar.

A foreign PhD is more important to this country than your wife.

PhD in prehistoric Crimean anthropology? I don't think so.

PhD in quantitative finance, specializing in backtesting Monte Carlo methods on Terabyte datasets? Sure, come on over.

[peejay 327]

Peejay, you have made your point regarding "the 7 previous amnesties" repeatedly on VJ in thread after thread. Any regular reader has heard it multiple times. In this post, you make it fairly succinctly and even convincingly UNTIL the usage of the word "morons" to refer to the amorphous group of all those who don't happen to agree with you.

Contrary to what you might believe, immigration reform like most controversial subjects of public policy is NOT a black and white issue of "Peejay is right and everyone else must be a moron for not agreeing with him". There are nuances and shadings to the debate. By labeling opponents of your view "morons" you have done nothing to strengthen your argument, and all you've done is alienated those who might want to reflect more deeply on your views and perhaps even come around to seeing things your way.

Catch some flies, man. Honey, not vinegar.

I (and most Americans) do believe it is a matter of black and white. Ever wonder why the last several attempts at another amnesty have failed? It's because the American people are tired of the lies and bullshit that any immigration reform must have amnesty as the central component (as this latest legislation does once again). We already have numerous laws against illegal immigration and unauthorized work that have been coupled with unfunded promises of enforcement numerous times. The American people aren't stupid and have raised holy hell until this stupid notion that an 8th amnesty is warranted and necessary in order to enforce our existing laws. Amnesty is just a repeat of the same failed policies of the past. Why would anyone that is not a moron go there again? Riddle me that Batman.

And instead of attacking me why don't you refute my assertions? I may not be very polite while calling a spade a spade, but at least I state the facts while I call someone a moron. What else is someone that repeated fails while repeating the same failed policies?

And a fly swatter works wonders too. You can't be too nice with vermin. Nice has already been tried 7 times with the failed results there for all to see.

Not only that...but this administration and its caucus should be more concerned and give more priority to Americans at a time when millions are unemployed and underemployed instead of ensuring that illegal aliens get permanent residency and work authorization for breaking our laws. Does anyone else think this is the height of absurdity? This borders on treason against the American people. The American people didn't want amnesty when unemployment was low, nor did they give a ####### that it was the Republiclowns under GWB that were pushing it. Why the hell would the American people want it now with 10% unemployment and the Dems pushing it? So...where is the "change"? Cheap votes and cheap labor doesn't benefit anyone but illegal aliens, politicians, Wall Street, and the Hispanic race peddling organizations. No wonder most Americans want no part of it.

[scandal 951]

And instead of attacking me why don't you refute my assertions? I may not be very polite while calling a spade a spade, but at least I state the facts while I call someone a moron. What else is someone that repeated fails while repeating the same failed policies?

Please show me where I attacked you. I did not. I wrote "In this post, you make it [your point] fairly succinctly and even convincingly ". If that's not a compliment, I don't know what is. I'm asking you to examine your choice of the word "moron", nothing more. People with good intention can disagree without having to belittle each other.

As to your claim "I state the facts". No, you are stating your opinion. Your opinion that we've had 7 past amnesties (uncited) which have not "worked". Worked to what aim? Failed in what way? You can say it's black and white all you like, but whether you like it or not you do not speak for 300+ million Americans. Others feel differently, their perspectives are as much part of the dialog as yours. No more valid, no less so.

"Because Peejay said so on the Interwebz" is not how we determine public policy in this country. Thank holy heaven.

[peejay 327]

Please show me where I attacked you. I did not. I wrote "In this post, you make it [your point] fairly succinctly and even convincingly ". If that's not a compliment, I don't know what is. I'm asking you to examine your choice of the word "moron", nothing more. People with good intention can disagree without having to belittle each other.

As to your claim "I state the facts". No, you are stating your opinion. Your opinion that we've had 7 past amnesties (uncited) which have not "worked". Worked to what aim? Failed in what way? You can say it's black and white all you like, but whether you like it or not you do not speak for 300+ million Americans. Others feel differently, their perspectives are as much part of the dialog as yours. No more valid, no less so.

"Because Peejay said so on the Interwebz" is not how we determine public policy in this country. Thank holy heaven.

Let's see...7 illegal alien amnesties and now there are more illegal aliens in the USA than ever before. I guess repeated amnesties have been a resounding success as a matter of public policy. Why else are there so many more illegal aliens after each one? I'm speechless! Why don't you enlighten us as to the wisdom of an 8th amnesty. Make your case. So far you just hurl insults and snarky remarks.

Who said I am the spokesman for 300 million Americans? There are enough polls and local referendums to back up my assertions. Obama wasn't elected on a mandate of amnesty. You can't prove that Americans overwhelmingly do want amnesty nor can you prove that amnesty is necessary for any immigration reform to move forward either. My position has been proven by the repeated failure of immigration reform with amnesty as its central component. The American people don't want it and they have wised up after 7 previous amnesties. It's a failed policy plain and simple.

Not to mention that it is highly inappropriate with millions of Americans unemployed and underemployed. But I'm sure you will assert that they are all for another amnesty. Why don't you ask them?

Edited March 20, 2010 by peejay

[scandal 951]

Why don't you enlighten us as to the wisdom of an 8th amnesty. Make your case. So far you just hurl insults and snarky remarks.

Show me where I'm asking for an 8th amnesty, or any amnesty. (It's only your claim that I see which has the count to 7, btw. I'm aware of the amnesty in the 1980s under Reagan, that's it).

Show me where I've hurled an insult at you.

You can have the last word in your next post, I'm through here. I've tried to patiently reason with you. You want to believe I'm opposing your views and insulting you, go right ahead. Believe whatever you like.

[lucyrich 20]

We would require all U.S. citizens and legal immigrants who want jobs to obtain a high-tech, fraud-proof Social Security card. Each card's unique biometric identifier would be stored only on the card; no government database would house everyone's information. The cards would not contain any private information, medical information, nor tracking devices. The card will be a high-tech version of the Social Security card that citizens already have.

Prospective employers would be responsible for swiping the cards through a machine to confirm a person's identity and immigration status. Employers who refused to swipe the card or who otherwise knowingly hired unauthorized workers would face stiff fines and, for repeat offenses, prison sentences.

That's wishful thinking. If the information is not stored in a central database, but instead is in the card itself, then the card isn't so tamper-proof. The incentive would be huge for starting up a factory somewhere (perhaps overseas?) that would produce valid-looking cards that would swipe just like the real ones. Where the incentive is strong enough, someone will do it.

We propose a zero-tolerance policy for gang members, smugglers, terrorists and those who commit other felonies after coming here illegally. We would bolster recent efforts to secure our borders by increasing the Border Patrol's staffing and funding for infrastructure and technology. More personnel would be deployed to the border immediately to fill gaps in apprehension capabilities.

Other steps include expanding domestic enforcement to better apprehend and deport those who commit crimes and completing an entry-exit system that tracks people who enter the United States on legal visas and reports those who overstay their visas to law enforcement databases.

"Zero tolerance" has a sound that will appeal to some, but stop with the silly assumption that deportation exports the problem to another country. If the penalty is just deportation, you're merely giving them the opportunity to repeat the journey across the border. They've already demonstrated that they have the ability and motivation to make this journey, so why does anyone think they'll stay where they're deported to? No, if people commit serious crimes in our nation, let's hold them in prison. Only after they've served their prison sentence should they be eligible for deportation. As an aside, US authorities can't properly supervise someone on parole while they're in another country, so parole should probably not be an option for those who can't legally remain in the US for the entire duration of their parole period.

Also of interest to VJ'ers should be the last sentence quoted above. A K-1 entrant who sends in the adjustment of status paperwork 91 or more days after entry is an overstayer.

[justashooter 430]

A foreign PhD is more important to this country than your wife.

my wife can get a chinese PHD in 15 minutes froma friend at her college.

[peejay 327]

Show me where I'm asking for an 8th amnesty, or any amnesty. (It's only your claim that I see which has the count to 7, btw. I'm aware of the amnesty in the 1980s under Reagan, that's it).

Show me where I've hurled an insult at you.

You can have the last word in your next post, I'm through here. I've tried to patiently reason with you. You want to believe I'm opposing your views and insulting you, go right ahead. Believe whatever you like.

The amnesty of 1986 was supposed to be a "one time only" amnesty. Yet since 1986, Congress passed a total of 7 amnesties for illegal aliens:

1. The Immigration and Reform Control Act (IRCA) Amnesty of 1986 - the "one-time only" blanket amnesty for some 2.8 million illegal aliens.

2. Section 245(i) The Amnesty of 1994 - a temporary rolling amnesty for 578,000 illegal aliens.

3. Section 245(i) The Extension Amnesty of 1997 - an extension of the rolling amnesty created in 1994.

4. The Nicaraguan Adjustment and Central American Relief Act (NACARA) Amnesty of 1997 - an amnesty for nearly one million illegal aliens from Central America.

5. The Haitian Refugee Immigration Fairness Act Amnesty (HRIFA) of 1998 - an amnesty for 125,000 illegal aliens from Haiti.

6. The Late Amnesty of 2000 - an amnesty for approximately 400,000 illegal aliens who claimed they should have been amnestied under the 1986 IRCA amnesty.

7. The LIFE Act Amnesty of 2000 - a reinstatement of the rolling Section 245(i) amnesty to an estimated 900,000 illegal aliens.

http://www.numbersusa.com/content/print/4570?

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

A proposal from somebody who has absolutely no clue!

1)Few illegal immigrants flash legitimate SS cards, so a fancier card means squat. The hundreds of illegal immigrants I've personally met here in SoCal and continue to meet on a daily basis, don't ever have to show a card and will always work jobs where nobody asks for a card. They work, get paid in cash, and if some white or black van parks in front of the building they work at, they scoot. That will never change.

2)

Our legislation would award green cards to immigrants who receive a PhD or master's degree in science, technology, engineering or math from a U.S. university. It makes no sense to educate the world's future inventors and entrepreneurs and then force them to leave when they are able to contribute to our economy.

What a dumbass! IMMIGRANTS, a.k.a. Lawful Permanent Residents, already have a Green Card. People with a student visa are not immigrants. And even if one were to include illegal immigrants into the game, those people will never make it to the level of a M.A./M.S., let alone PhD. MD, or anything similar, as those who can afford a $250,000 education most likely haven't crossed the border in the trunk of a car or overstayed their visitor's visa by 8-or-so years just in order to get a very expensive education.

Here's how you get illegal immigrants out in potential immigrants who will contribute to the country's economy, welfare, and cultural prosperity in. Call it Bob's proposal.

1) Pass a law, by Executive Order if necessary, that requires every peace officer, government employee, and landlord to verify legal presence in the US at any time an application is submitted. Driver license, car registration, apartment rental, gas service, water, electricity, flight ticket, Greyhound bus ticket, train ticket, school registration, field trip, hospital visit . . . you name it. Every time.

2) Enforce this law by implementing harsh fines for those who violate it. Detain people who cannot provide proof of legal presence until said proof has been presented. If that's not possible, deport them.

3) Make the fee for Green Card $10,000 and require every potential LPR to pass a fairly advanced test in English and one similar to the Citizenship test. Furthermore require proof of sufficient funds, equaling the ability to be financially self-sufficient for at least one year.

What would be accomplished by this? Simple. New immigrants would be able to assimilate easier, as by the time they become LPRs, they speak sufficient English and can document that they don't need a penny from the US or any State Government. It would sort out the future bus boys, field workers, convenience store clerks, cab drivers, in short, all the people of which the US has plenty already.

4) Family Immigration. Do not allow to file for AOS in the US, or at least put a $10,000 fine up for those who want to do that. Any spouse of a USC who gets a 2-year GC and gets divorced before ROC loses their status and has to leave the country within 90 days. A bail in form of $10,000 has to be posted immediately, which will be refunded upon departure. Those who cannot post bail need to provide a sponsor who guarantees that the former LPR leaves the country within the allotted time frame. If the former LPR disappears, the sponsor is responsible for the $10,000.

People, it's really not difficult to get the illegal immigrants detained and out of the country, and to make sure that only qualified, smart, financially secure, and English-speaking immigrants get LPR status. But you have to understand that politicians don't want that, for obvious reasons.