Scary! (Not the hacking...the fact its in the car at all)

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

More than 100 drivers in Austin, Texas found their cars disabled or the horns honking out of control, after an intruder ran amok in a web-based vehicle-immobilization system normally used to get the attention of consumers delinquent in their auto payments.

Police with Austin’s High Tech Crime Unit on Wednesday arrested 20-year-old Omar Ramos-Lopez, a former Texas Auto Center employee who was laid off last month, and allegedly sought revenge by bricking the cars sold from the dealership’s four Austin-area lots.

“We initially dismissed it as mechanical failure,” says Texas Auto Center manager Martin Garcia. “We started having a rash of up to a hundred customers at one time complaining. Some customers complained of the horns going off in the middle of the night. The only option they had was to remove the battery.”

The dealership used a system called Webtech Plus as an alternative to repossessing vehicles that haven’t been paid for. Operated by Cleveland-based Pay Technologies, the system lets car dealers install a small black box under vehicle dashboards that responds to commands issued through a central website, and relayed over a wireless pager network. The dealer can disable a car’s ignition system, or trigger the horn to begin honking, as a reminder that a payment is due. The system will not stop a running vehicle.

Texas Auto Center began fielding complaints from baffled customers the last week in February, many of whom wound up missing work, calling tow trucks or disconnecting their batteries to stop the honking. The troubles stopped five days later, when Texas Auto Center reset the Webtech Plus passwords for all its employee accounts, says Garcia. Then police obtained access logs from Pay Technologies, and traced the saboteur’s IP address to Ramos-Lopez’s AT&T internet service, according to a police affidavit filed in the case.

Ramos-Lopez’s account had been closed when he was terminated from Texas Auto Center in a workforce reduction last month, but he allegedly got in through another employee’s account, Garcia says. At first, the intruder targeted vehicles by searching on the names of specific customers. Then he discovered he could pull up a database of all 1,100 Auto Center customers whose cars were equipped with the device. He started going down the list in alphabetical order, vandalizing the records, disabling the cars and setting off the horns.

“Omar was pretty good with computers,” says Garcia.

The incident is the first time an intruder has abused the no-start system, according to Jim Krueger, co-owner of Pay Technologies. “It was a fairly straightforward situation,” says Krueger. “He had retained a password, and what happened was he went in and created a little bit of havoc.”

Krueger disputes that the horns were honking in the middle of the night; he says the horn honking can only be activated between 9 a.m. and 9 p.m.

First rolled out about 10 years ago, remote immobilization systems are a controversial answer to delinquent car payments, with critics voicing concerns that debtors could suffer needless humiliation, or find themselves stranded during an emergency. Proponents say the systems let financers extend credit to consumers who might otherwise be ineligible for an auto loan.

Austin police filed computer intrusion charges against Ramos-Lopez on Tuesday.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/03/hacker-bricks-cars/

[Niels Bohr 72]

I heard OnStar is better than having AAA.

[Sc0tt28 26]

I heard OnStar is better than having AAA.

Although I like the idea of OnStar, I do question the level of privacy one can have. How do I know there is not some nosey OnStar representative that isn't listening in on my private phone conversations?

[Ali G. 37]

Any comments Paul?

This is why we the rest of the first world does not allow the private sector to do as they please.

[The_Dude 1,142]

Although I am opposed to such devices being installed in cars, I undestand that until it is fully paid off that the finance company technically owns the car and can do this. However, I do have two questions about this. First, are the people purchasing the car notified that this is installed on the vehicle? Second, will the dealer uninstall the device when the car is fully paid off (at no extra cost)?

[Obama 2012 1,714]

I like the system honestly.

As they say, it gives people with 'bad credit' the oppurtunity to purchase a vehicle, also without having to worry about having the car reposessed for lack of payment on time as well...

It's an up front thing and the people know about it who are purchasing the vehicles. It's not like they are 'sneaking it in'

You can argue all you want BY about the 'private sector' but people do have the ultimate choice here and auto dealers like this would not be in business if there wasn't a market there for them. They are all over the place...

[The_Dude 1,142]

I like the system honestly.

As they say, it gives people with 'bad credit' the oppurtunity to purchase a vehicle, also without having to worry about having the car reposessed for lack of payment on time as well...

It's an up front thing and the people know about it who are purchasing the vehicles. It's not like they are 'sneaking it in'

You can argue all you want BY about the 'private sector' but people do have the ultimate choice here and auto dealers like this would not be in business if there wasn't a market there for them. They are all over the place...

Let's at least be honest here. When a company says that this enables them to give credit to people who would otherwise not be worthy of financing, this is borderline predatory business practice. They are giving loans to people knowing full well that they will probably only make payments on it for 6-12 months before getting overwhealmed.

If the customers know full well going into the situation that the device is there, then they are making the decision. Do the dealerships charge to have them removed after the terms of the loan?

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

I like the system honestly.

As they say, it gives people with 'bad credit' the oppurtunity to purchase a vehicle, also without having to worry about having the car reposessed for lack of payment on time as well...

It's an up front thing and the people know about it who are purchasing the vehicles. It's not like they are 'sneaking it in'

You can argue all you want BY about the 'private sector' but people do have the ultimate choice here and auto dealers like this would not be in business if there wasn't a market there for them. They are all over the place...

Its a very slippery slope my friend.

[Ali G. 37]

I like the system honestly.

As they say, it gives people with 'bad credit' the oppurtunity to purchase a vehicle, also without having to worry about having the car reposessed for lack of payment on time as well...

It's an up front thing and the people know about it who are purchasing the vehicles. It's not like they are 'sneaking it in'

You can argue all you want BY about the 'private sector' but people do have the ultimate choice here and auto dealers like this would not be in business if there wasn't a market there for them. They are all over the place...

Being that your spouse is from Canada, I think you will find most other - well all actually - first world countries value their privacy from private corporations. How do we know they are not tracking these cars? Like most libertarians, you seem to be under the illusion that government is the bad guy while the private sector can do no wrong. I trust my government a hell of a lot more than I trust some car dealer or any other profit driven private corporation, that's for bloody sure.

Upfront? Never heard of such a thing before. Nevertheless, it also amounts to a form of blackmail - pay up or else. Are you actually advocating we return to the old days of pay up otherwise you are 'dealt with'? I am sure you believe people have 'a choice' when they sign up to a 5% rate credit card, only to have it jump to 19.99%, after they have charged on it of course.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Being that your spouse is from Canada, I think you will find most other - well all actually - first world countries value their privacy from private corporations. How do we know they are not tracking these cars? Like most libertarians, you seem to be under the illusion that government is the bad guy while the private sector can do no wrong. I trust my government a hell of a lot more than I trust some car dealer or any other profit driven private corporation, that's for bloody sure.

Upfront? Never heard of such a thing before. Nevertheless, it also amounts to a form of blackmail - pay up or else. Are you actually advocating we return to the old days of pay up otherwise you are 'dealt with'? I am sure you believe people have 'a choice' when they sign up to a 5% rate credit card, only to have it jump to 19.99%, after they have charged on it of course.

Also, the line between private/public isn't as black and white as people would be lead to believe.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Being that your spouse is from Canada, I think you will find most other - well all actually - first world countries value their privacy from private corporations. How do we know they are not tracking these cars? Like most libertarians, you seem to be under the illusion that government is the bad guy while the private sector can do no wrong. I trust my government a hell of a lot more than I trust some car dealer or any other profit driven private corporation, that's for bloody sure.

Upfront? Never heard of such a thing before. Nevertheless, it also amounts to a form of blackmail - pay up or else. Are you actually advocating we return to the old days of pay up otherwise you are 'dealt with'? I am sure you believe people have 'a choice' when they sign up to a 5% rate credit card, only to have it jump to 19.99%, after they have charged on it of course.

I don't like the idea of owning a car with one, and the same reason why I will never buy a GM car with "onStar" as well.

If people know what they're getting into and understand the stipulations up front, then I have no problem with the system.

You have the ultimate choice when it comes to the private sector and how you spend your money and choose the products you use. With government, you don't.

[Ali G. 37]

Also, the line between private/public isn't as black and white as people would be lead to believe.

The biggest joke of the century is people actually believing the government is the enemy while the private sector is looking out for your interests. Not to mention we have a choice. Rubbish. Did the folks poisoned in the town of Hinkley, California have a choice? How many other towns throughout America are in the same situation? Heck, Alaskans are still waiting for the Exxon payout, due to the oil spill destroying their coastline.

If anyone want to see me take up arms, ask me to yield my power to the private sector over a democratically elected government.

[SMOKE 1,426]

Do the dealerships charge to have them removed after the terms of the loan?

the used dealers i know of that use them remove them free of charge.....because they're putting it on the next 'high risk' customers car.

[Ali G. 37]

I don't like the idea of owning a car with one, and the same reason why I will never buy a GM car with "onStar" as well.

If people know what they're getting into and understand the stipulations up front, then I have no problem with the system.

You have the ultimate choice when it comes to the private sector and how you spend your money and choose the products you use. With government, you don't.

Choice you say, what if all car dealers decide to implement this? Where is our choice then? Or should we just walk? Err can't do that, side-walks and public transport is pretty-much non existent throughout America. Understand the stipulations up front, usually means that they hide it into a contract, as every other shifty private corp does here.

Furthermore, do I have a choice over who collects, stores, sells, or swaps my private information as I do in Canada or Australia? Hell no. Hence, why both countries have strict Federal Privacy Acts. Actually Canada's is even better as once your relationship with a private company seizes, they must remove all of your information. Strictly forbidden for any corp to sell your information to a private data mining company. For all we know, these tracking devices could be doing just that - which I am sure you have no problem with. Let me guess though, you are against cameras in public streets?

Edited March 18, 2010 by Ali G.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Obviously the dealer is racist for laying off a Hispanic that is good at computers so we should feel sorry for him, that's first.

Second, this is what will happen with all cars made and sold by the government. The government also owns GMAC which means they will be doing anything they can to collect on delinquent loans, including withholding income tax returns, etc. They will also place ways to track miles driven for future tax purposes. They also plan to pass a new law (without really voting on the law itself) that will require ALL automobile loans to be made by the government instead of private banks, like they are doing with student loans. By nationalizing the auto loans and auto industry, along with the medical field, banking, investment, and successfully running of all maufacturing (Can you believe it Burton SnowBoards will close their Vermont factory and make the boards in China now....43 Americans lost their jobs, they cited high payroll tax costs, environmental costs as reasons) Now they will be made by 500 Chinese making 1/1000th the pay and who couldn;t care less about environmental issues...good deal Obama)

Elect more Democrats.