Here is a reason to own a gun

[Peikko 1,575]

So, not only do our resident gun slingers own guns under protest - they don't actually like them or enjoy shooting them, they maintain that no one needs to practice shooting to be any good.

How many lies do you tell yourselves on a day to day basis exactly?

[Ali G. 37]

That's a perfect illustration how American society simply isn't as sophisticated as other western industrial nations. Bounty hunters shooting people in their own homes, home owners shooting back. What kind of idiocy is this?

USA! USA! USA! USA!

[Ali G. 37]

Rant about Bail

Which country's are the? Russia.

I love how we see the "nobody but America does this" argument here on VJ as proof that we shouldn't do it either. I highly recommend another tactic as this one's just not going to work. Regardless of how much you disagree with whatever we do, listing "how it works in the UK or Europe" or any other country is just not going to fly here. Remember, we already decided (twice) that we didn't like the UK's system and as for the rest of Europe and the world, for that matter, we've pretty much taken the stance that their system isn't going to work for us either. Thanks for trying though.

Straw-man argument. Nice of you to point out this is not the UK slim. Unfortunately no one ever thought it was, especially not after visiting Ohio - aka 2nd world.

[Ali G. 37]

You can use a seatbelt as a weapon and you can use a gun to save your life. Spin it however I may, it still requires a human to make choices and decisions and take action to effect some kind of action onto these inanimate mechanical objects.

Is a gun bad because it was designed specifically to kill people and a seatbelt good because it was designed specifically to save people? Do mechanical devices now have "animate" qualities?

Red herring alert. Who is the one doing the spinning here..

With this sort of intelligence, Ohio will be third world soon.

[Ban Hammer 13,408]

The people who don't have guns or have never shot guns cannot made ANY arguments on shooting.

that won't stop them though.

[Ali G. 37]

Slow down here, you almost sound like you're getting ready to say people should be responsible for their own actions and not blame them on inanimate mechanical devices!

We are on totally different wavelengths here. No offense but how does someone even respond to such a backwards mentality?

If it's solely up to choice, why is it I cannot buy a ballistic missile? Furthermore, this horseshit you state about not caring about the rest of the world is because you refuse to accept the facts and reality. Then again, one has to be college educated to comprehend facts and live in the real world rather than the woods to grasp reality.

Edited March 21, 2010 by Ali G.

[CDAgirlMI 51]

So, not only do our resident gun slingers own guns under protest - they don't actually like them or enjoy shooting them, they maintain that no one needs to practice shooting to be any good.

How many lies do you tell yourselves on a day to day basis exactly?

Why the f*** do you keep saying people who have guns DON'T like or enjoy them??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

I love shooting mine & try to get out as much as possible. I'm not the only one on here with that opinion.

I know this may shock you, but some gun owners actually LIKE to shoot.

[Ali G. 37]

One of the huge misconceptions about firearms in the home is "it's just not safe." Well, that's just not true. Often times the folks making that assumption have never even fired a gun, don't understand their operation, and base their opinions only on what they've seen on TV or read in a newspaper.

Unfortunately the facts suggest otherwise.

You're right! I too would rather just read facts posted by pro gun websites.

[Peikko 1,575]

Why the f*** do you keep saying people who have guns DON'T like or enjoy them??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

I love shooting mine & try to get out as much as possible. I'm not the only one on here with that opinion.

I know this may shock you, but some gun owners actually LIKE to shoot.

My position is that the ONLY good reason for owning a gun is because you enjoy shooting. Direct your ire against Charles, because he's the one pushing the myth that gun owners have an aversion to guns.

[Ali G. 37]

My position is that the ONLY good reason for owning a gun is because you enjoy shooting. Direct your ire against Charles, because he's the one pushing the myth that gun owners have an aversion to guns.

That's exactly right. If someone comes on here and says I like guns and want to keep them, fair enough - to each his own. The problem I have is with anyone who BS that guns are a measure of self defense or better yet, apparently prevent and reduce crime. Strangely enough Slim and co refuse to look at and compare stats with those abroad that don't have guns that demonstrate and illustrate otherwise.

Edited March 22, 2010 by Ali G.

[Ban Hammer 13,408]

My position is that the ONLY good reason for owning a gun is because you enjoy shooting. Direct your ire against Charles, because he's the one pushing the myth that gun owners have an aversion to guns.

that's not what i said....

[justashooter 430]

If it's solely up to choice, why is it I cannot buy a ballistic missile?

because you don't have enough cash, stupid.

Furthermore, this horseshit you state about not caring about the rest of the world is because you refuse to accept the facts and reality. Then again, one has to be college educated to comprehend facts and live in the real world rather than the woods to grasp reality.

your reality is yours. take it to a place where it plays better. it's not the only reality out there, and is not mainstream, in any manner.

one does not have to be college educated to comprehend facts. one has to be college educated to be indoctrinated with an agenda. you are living proof of the failure that college has become.

thomas edison never went to college. abraham lincoln never went to college. bill gates never went to college.

your choice of avatar speaks louder than anything you write. grow up a little, huh?

Edited March 22, 2010 by justashooter

[slim 1,530]

No, it isn't. It's a weapon - it is functionally and specifically designed to injure/kill living things. Whatever you or anyone else might use it for, doesn't change the fundamental essence of what it is.

Where are you going with this? Yes, a gun is a weapon. Yes, it is designed to kill people in an efficient manner. I'm not disagreeing with any of that.

What is your point?

Meanwhile, unless you enjoy shooting guns, you really should not own one, it's that simple.

I don't enjoy using a fire extinguisher.... but I still own one. Should I get rid of it?

As to taking care of the what if scenarios, I take as many precautions as is reasonable and sensible and some of my hobbies/skills could prove useful should I ever be in an emergency situation.

Since you've continually dodged my question (What would you do if someone intent on causing you harm breaks into your home while you're there?)I'd like for you to answer it.

I'd also like to know what kind of hobbies and skills you have that you believe would protect you in an emergency situation better than a gun could. I'm not talking about riding your bike far away and camping in the woods until disaster is all cleaned up an ARMED MEN with "authority" return, I'm talking about an immediate threat - i.e. there's a man trying to kill you and he's in your house - that is happening right now and you can't get away from it. What are you going to do, and why is that better than having a gun?

Please clear this up for me once and for all.

Unless you enjoy shooting, you are simply not going to practice shooting with enough regularity to be able to use a gun to useful effect, same with any skill, use it or lose it and a person who can't shoot straight is a piss poor person to own a gun, not to mention being entirely useless in an emergency.

False, false, and once again, false. I don't care if you're the worst shot in the world, being on the "right" side of the gun is better than being on "NO" side of the gun. Justashooter cleared this up nicely, and I'll second what he says.

The people who don't have guns or have never shot guns cannot made ANY arguments on shooting.

Oh they can talk all they want. But they don't have to be taken seriously... they're unarmed! Much like how they "vote" for what they want our government to do, they're kind of just smiled at and nodded to... only to be disregarded when it counts.

So, not only do our resident gun slingers own guns under protest - they don't actually like them or enjoy shooting them, they maintain that no one needs to practice shooting to be any good.

I think you may've misunderstood the whole position. Gun owners truly respect the power and capability they possess. It should be obvious why they have an aversion to using them on other humans. You're not supposed to cause harm to other people. You're supposed to do what's right at all times and be accountable for your own actions. However, most gun owners I know also have decided that they're (and their families) going to be safe and secure in their own person and property and will NOT allow another human to do them serious harm or cause them death. When faced with that situation, they will do "bad" as opposed to having "bad" done to them. How dare those other humans put us in that horrible position.

While I would say how dare you accuse us of having some kind of sick desire to cause other people harm, I truly believe it's more of a misunderstanding that you don't see our side of the position - we refuse to allow others to do harm to us because we would not do harm to others. Golden rule at it's most extreme, if you will. So, once again, I ask.... What are you going to do when someone breaks into your home and attempts to cause you serious harm or death?

And Booyah!, I didn't forget to quote you and reply, I'm just done PWNING you in every thread. It would be one thing if you had actual statistical data to back up your theories, but all you've done thus far is show us how they took the guns away and now folks kill each other with knives. Also, as admirable as your devil's advocate stance is - you own handguns. Hypocrisy at it's finest! Thanks for playing, Rosie. PWNED yet again.

[Ali G. 37]

And Booyah!, I didn't forget to quote you and reply, I'm just done PWNING you in every thread. It would be one thing if you had actual statistical data to back up your theories, but all you've done thus far is show us how they took the guns away and now folks kill each other with knives. Also, as admirable as your devil's advocate stance is - you own handguns. Hypocrisy at it's finest! Thanks for playing, Rosie. PWNED yet again.

Yes, awesome pwnage with those "average" comments.

All of your comments should come with straw-man / red herring warnings. My favorite was you suggesting that seat belts can also be used to kill.

As I posted in another thread specifically regarding the UK vs US. You have ~170 times the homicide rate by means of firearms yet only ~5 times the population.

End of story - case closed.

Edited March 22, 2010 by Ali G.

[slim 1,530]

Here we go again....

If we have 5 times the population, then why do we only have 5 times the "overall" murder rate? Shouldn't it be a lot higher if we're killing 170 times more people with guns? You would think our per-capita murder rate would be somewhere nearer to 170 times that of the UK... not 5 times just like our population difference.

Or, could it be, quite possibly, that people in the UK kill each other with seatbelts or some other inanimate object that wasn't originally designed as a weapon? Have they found a way to still kill each other without guns? NO WAY! THAT CAN'T BE! It defies all logic!

Keep posting stuff... I'll keep PWNING you.

Edited to add "Straw-man/Red Herring" ALERT!

Edited March 22, 2010 by slim