Here is a reason to own a gun

[natty bumppo 297]

It doesn't happen anywhere else Charles, only in America. Sure, we have crime all over the globe, but no where else do innocent people get gunned down in their own home in the name of pursuit of justice.

really?? :blink:

[Peikko 1,575]

i suppose whether it's inherently dangerous depends on whether one has been victimized or not. additionally, depending on where one lives will increase or decrease the likelihood of a home invasion - i.e. if in the dirt poor part of town, i'd suspect that would be increased. if in the rich part of town, say a gated community, odds are it will be decreased. in short, if your neighborhood has a pattern of break ins, eventually you may well be a victim too.

furthermore, one must take into account an individual's place and type of work (for the mugging aspect). going to work in a white collar job in a major corporation's office building is probably not as dangerous as driving say, a beer vending service truck through the seedy side of town.

as for if one feels safer with or without a firearm, i leave that up to the individual's judgement. they, more than you or i or anyone else, knows what the likelihood is more than anyone else. lastly, just because you've not been a victim in 32 years that does not mean such will be the case for the next 32 years.

i highly doubt the "only in america" part.

on the part of who? the homeowner, or the invader?

Sorry, I've lived in the seedier parts of town, I've been robbed on numerous occasions. I was never harmed, never threatened, never even saw the intruder and all in the UK where apparently I was less safe than in the US because we UK citizens are not allowed to wield guns willy nilly.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

i suppose whether it's inherently dangerous depends on whether one has been victimized or not. additionally, depending on where one lives will increase or decrease the likelihood of a home invasion - i.e. if in the dirt poor part of town, i'd suspect that would be increased. if in the rich part of town, say a gated community, odds are it will be decreased. in short, if your neighborhood has a pattern of break ins, eventually you may well be a victim too.

furthermore, one must take into account an individual's place and type of work (for the mugging aspect). going to work in a white collar job in a major corporation's office building is probably not as dangerous as driving say, a beer vending service truck through the seedy side of town.

as for if one feels safer with or without a firearm, i leave that up to the individual's judgement. they, more than you or i or anyone else, knows what the likelihood is more than anyone else. lastly, just because you've not been a victim in 32 years that does not mean such will be the case for the next 32 years.

I get that, but I'm wondering why that "self-defence" argument is put forth so strongly by the pro-gun crowd - given (I suppose) that not everyone on here who owns a gun, lives in the seedy part of town or has a job that takes them into bad neighbourhoods. I could be wrong about that, but with VJers being all over the country and from various different socio-economic levels clearly not everyone's circumstances and risks are the same.

Personally, I think the media is responsible for inflating people's fear of crime and being a victim (there is some research to support this). I do think its interesting that numerous pro-gun VJers have stated here on multiple occasions (in other threads) that a person who chooses not to own a gun is somehow in imminent danger of attack - and that if they become a victim it will be their own fault.

It's nothing more than fearmongering.

[Ban Hammer 13,408]

You can highly doubt it all you want. There are no bounty hunters in the UK or the rest of Europe for that matter. There is no legal right to enter a home with a gun to bring someone before the court system outside of the US, so yes, it only happens in countries were such idiocy is permitted.

thank you for your permission, as i will doubt. you see, the uk and europe don't constitute the world. as you stated "Sure, we have crime all over the globe, but no where else do innocent people get gunned down in their own home in the name of pursuit of justice."

i'm sure similar situations happen throughout the globe, and i wasn't referring to europe one bit when i expressed my doubts.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

steven, have you tried shooting at anything in the dark? it takes lots of practice to be able to even hit something that presents an outline in the dark, in total darkness you're liable to hit everything but the target.

I understand. If someone intrudes your home with the intent to harm you, they aren't going to discriminate where or how often they discharge their weapon, leaving you the homeowner at a disadvantage. There are however, other ways that a homeowner can have the advantage, all of which have nothing to do with owning a gun - like motion sensor lights, a guard dog (which IMO is the best protection), deadbolt locks, alarm systems that automatically notify the police.

It is a comforting idea that we can protect our family and home with a gun, but IMO, that is more a romantic ideal than reality. If I did feel that my home was susceptible of being invaded or possibly my life threatened, I would definitely consider owning a gun for protection, but I wouldn't consider it my primary method of self defense...and relying solely on a gun for self defense, even in the home is shortsighted, IMO.

[Ban Hammer 13,408]

Sorry, I've lived in the seedier parts of town, I've been robbed on numerous occasions. I was never harmed, never threatened, never even saw the intruder and all in the UK where apparently I was less safe than in the US because we UK citizens are not allowed to wield guns willy nilly.

maybe you just had a friendly mugger that didn't want anything other than your money. again, it's your choice if you want to be armed or not.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

on the part of who? the homeowner, or the invader?

On the part whoever is doing the shooting.

A family home is not something you associate (or want to associate) with gunshots. In much the same way it would be demented to exhibit a pornographic movie to an elementary school class.

[Peikko 1,575]

really?? :blink:

Name one country where bounty hunting is legally permitted outside of the US? There are not many, if any.

maybe you just had a friendly mugger that didn't want anything other than your money. again, it's your choice if you want to be armed or not.

How are there 'friendly' muggers in the UK where everyone is unarmed apart from criminals? Btw, these were 'home invasions' and 'car invasions' not muggings.

[Ban Hammer 13,408]

I get that, but I'm wondering why that "self-defence" argument is put forth so strongly by the pro-gun crowd - given (I suppose) that not everyone on here who owns a gun, lives in the seedy part of town or has a job that takes them into bad neighbourhoods. I could be wrong about that, but with VJers being all over the country and from various different socio-economic levels clearly not everyone's circumstances and risks are the same.

Personally, I think the media is responsible for inflating people's fear of crime and being a victim (there is some research to support this). I do think its interesting that numerous pro-gun VJers have stated here on multiple occasions (in other threads) that a person who chooses not to own a gun is somehow in imminent danger of attack - and that if they become a victim it will be their own fault.

It's nothing more than fearmongering.

fearmongering is your take on it, imo calling it that is downplaying the topic unjustly.

see, out here where i live, 911 will get you a response in 30-45 minutes. lots can happen in that 30-45 minutes, eh?

so if you don't want to own a gun, that's fine by me. i'm not telling anyone to go buy one whether they want one or not. i guess part of why i like to have one is i'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

maybe that's why i carried condoms around in my wallet when i was a teen until they expired.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Sorry, I've lived in the seedier parts of town, I've been robbed on numerous occasions. I was never harmed, never threatened, never even saw the intruder and all in the UK where apparently I was less safe than in the US because we UK citizens are not allowed to wield guns willy nilly.

The year I left home to go to uni, I was rather surprised to discover that the street I was living on was infamous for prostitution and heroin addiction. Daily Telegraph had a double page article on it, with a large photo of the bottom of my road.

Thing was, it wasn't a run down area at all.

[natty bumppo 297]

I understand. If someone intrudes your home with the intent to harm you, they aren't going to discriminate where or how often they discharge their weapon, leaving you the homeowner at a disadvantage. There are however, other ways that a homeowner can have the advantage, all of which have nothing to do with owning a gun - like motion sensor lights, a guard dog (which IMO is the best protection), deadbolt locks, alarm systems that automatically notify the police.

It is a comforting idea that we can protect our family and home with a gun, but IMO, that is more a romantic ideal than reality. If I did feel that my home was susceptible of being invaded or possibly my life threatened, I would definitely consider owning a gun for protection, but I wouldn't consider it my primary method of self defense...and relying solely on a gun for self defense, even in the home is shortsighted, IMO.

home protection should be a layered system with all of the things mentioned. not just a single layer.

btw: the guard dog can be an issue if this is an aggressive animal as you know have a 24/7 responsibility to protect innocents (children/ neighbors/etc) from potentially being attacked. even when you are not at home (dogs can and will get loose).

eta:> almost lost an "o" ...

Edited March 19, 2010 by Natty Bumppo

[Ban Hammer 13,408]

How are there 'friendly' muggers in the UK where everyone is unarmed apart from criminals? Btw, these were 'home invasions' and 'car invasions' not muggings.

british criminals are classier, they'll rob you with respect.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

fearmongering is your take on it, imo calling it that is downplaying the topic unjustly.

see, out here where i live, 911 will get you a response in 30-45 minutes. lots can happen in that 30-45 minutes, eh?

so if you don't want to own a gun, that's fine by me. i'm not telling anyone to go buy one whether they want one or not. i guess part of why i like to have one is i'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

maybe that's why i carried condoms around in my wallet when i was a teen until they expired.

Charles, if someone is telling you that are in imminent danger of being robbed, raped and/or murdered and that you need to buy a gun in order to prevent what is otherwise sure to happen if you don't buy one, they are using the fear of crime to persuade to you change your behavior.

That is fearmongering. That's not my "take" on it, its just what it is.

[Peikko 1,575]

The thing is Charles, again, there is crime in society, no one is denying that and it is true that some areas are sadly more prone to criminal activity than others, but even then, if you have to be in an area that is prone to criminal activity, the chances that you will be involved in a crime where the possession of a gun is of some use is virtually nil. If for example I wander into an area that is prone to gang violence by accident, my chances of getting randomly shot increase, but my chances of knowing that I am going to be shot and will get the opportunity to shoot first are practically zero.

[natty bumppo 297]

Name one country where bounty hunting is legally permitted outside of the US? There are not many, if any.

How are there 'friendly' muggers in the UK where everyone is unarmed apart from criminals? Btw, these were 'home invasions' and 'car invasions' not muggings.

the comment to which i replied did not mention "bounty hunters". it had do deal with innocents being shot in their own homes by police.

are you now changing that post?