Girlfriend denied B2... affects VWP?

[semicharmdlifer 0]

Hello there everyone

My girlfriend of a couple years, a Scottish citizen, just got denied her B2. We played by all the rules, we told the truth and she brought lots of supporting evidence that she would return to the UK at the end of 6 months and they still denied her. We are extremely upset over this, but we are trying to move forward and figure out what to do next. The interviewing officer told her this would likely affect her chances of being able to even come over on the Visa Waiver program! If this is true, how long does black mark against her usually last? Are there any other alternatives?

We can't believe that this is could be a total dead end of our relationship, that now I can only visit her and not the other way around. There must be something we can do.

[Bobby+Umit 161]

Since you were refused a visa, you would have to make that known when you apply for the VWP, which means they may prevent the issue of it, for the same reason they did the B-2.

From the State website:

(I was denied a visa on a recent visa application, may I use the VWP?

A recent visa denial for any reason could result in denial of an authorization via ESTA, additional questioning at the port of entry, or denial of admission to the United States. Applicants who are uncertain of whether they qualify for VWP travel may choose to apply for a visa.

--------

The visa refusal is part of her immigration record, for what it's worth, and it will never "go away". You can only mitigate it by showing more evidence (for example, in your case, stronger ties home)

The only alternative is for you two to meet in another country, like Mexico or Canada, not the US.

I don't understand why you didn't go for the VWP first, before the B-2?

Edited March 15, 2010 by Bobby+Umit

[Boiler 45,997]

First step is to complete ESTA and see if she can use the VWP. Probably yes.

When using the VWP she will need to tick the box saying have you ever been refused a visa. This will usually result in a trip to secondary. She should bring with her proof of her ties, when she has to be back at work, property etc etc to be shown is asked to substantiate her need to return.

You are stuck with it forever. Not a good idea to apply for a B when you can use the VWP and have no justification for a B. But water under the bridge now.

[semicharmdlifer 0]

can you tell me what a trip to secondary means? We're willing to do anything at this point. We have all intentions to following the rules. We didn't know that getting rejected for a B2 would hurt her chances of being able to come over at all. We just both wanted her to be able to come over for 6 months and if that didn't work out then we'd aim for 3 months. Now our future is on the line because of this.

[Boiler 45,997]

The VWP has a maximum of 90 days not 3 months.

When you go through immigration if the guy you initially see has any issues he sends you to secondary where you sit and wait and are interviewed in more detail. Why you have a refused visa, why you want to visit, how long you are staying, why you will be leaving etc etc.

I would go with a couple of weeks, not 90 days. Getting that much vacation in the land of the 2 weeks can be had to explain.

Is there any reason you can not visit UK?

[semicharmdlifer 0]

I can visit the UK, in fact I did a little over a month ago. You see, my girlfriend and I met and spent almost a year together in New Zealand in 08/09. We both returned to our home countries in September 09. Then she came to visit me a for a couple weeks in November, and I went to go see her for a couple weeks in January.

We were hoping to now have her come here for a few months as it is easier for her to travel than me (thanks to my work). But now we are faced with a total dead end to our situation if she is only able to come here for a week or two.

[Boiler 45,997]

I remember now.

You were warned that the chances of a B were very low, I did ask what sort of job she had that allowed so much holiday, that is what the POE will want to know as well.

[semicharmdlifer 0]

Again, we were playing by all the rules and being fully honest all the way through. We just wanted the chance to be together for more than a couple of weeks. Has it come down to our ONLY options being A) marriage or B) deal with 2 week visits?

[Boiler 45,997]

There is no try before you buy visa.

You have complicated the situation with the VWP application.

What your chances are in different scenarios are is difficult to say, we do not know your girlfriends situation and we will not be the one at the POE making the call.

[SunDrop 59]

Has it come down to ... deal with 2 week visits?

I can understand why you'd want to try and spend more time together as a couple before making a leap to committing to marriage. I also understand why it's easier for her to travel to you than vice-versa, considering you'd be giving up your job when the plan is for her to emigrate there, and so requires you to sponsor her financially. And again, I understand that when you have experienced spending long periods of time together, it's heart-wrenching to only have short trips.

But...it's not like it's the end of the world. There are couples who can't visit each other at all and deciding that not being able to spend more than a couple of weeks together at a time is going to ruin the entire relationship seems to challenge your relationship more than surviving with frequent 2 week visits.

You hedged your bets, and lost. I'm sorry for your experience and the ensuing situation. You have to understand that part of the reason they presumably denied her B-2 visa is the same reason they're reluctant to allow people to enter on VWPs when they have return tickets 89 days ahead of time: you can adjust from them. And truth told, if you have 'sufficient ties' to the UK and can afford to spend 6 months away from them, you can afford to simply get married and adjust.

The mentalities are also very different. We're used to people saving up and then going backpacking to different places for months at a time. It's just not the done thing in the US. You should see me trying to explain a 'gap year' to them. It's considered a perk of the rich there, unlike here when it's almost a rite of passage.

I know this isn't much comfort, but sometimes understanding the logic behind the seeming madness is helpful. Sadly, as some people keep reminding us on VJ, immigration/ visas isn't a right, it's a privilege.

Edited March 16, 2010 by SunDrop

[Justine+David 218]

If you look at it from the officer's POV, they are trying to screen people out who are likely to immigrate to the U.S. on tourist visas. Since you have been in a relationship with her for over a year, it's not far-fetched at all to think that you would come over on a visitor visa and get married...

Sorry for your troubles. My fiance and I have been doing the long-distance thing for about a year and a half now and we see each other for about 4-5 days every other month or so. I've given up quite a few luxuries to do this, but I felt at the time he was worth it and when he proposed and we started our visa journey, it has been more than worth it.

Best of luck to your relationship.

[semicharmdlifer 0]

SunDrop, you are completely right. I knew all of it even while I was whining "woe is us" in my previous posts, it's just been a rough day. And now we need to come up with Plan B (or Plan C, really, since the WVP for 3 months is most likely out of the question). Yes, two week visits are doable, they're just expensive and don't allow my girlfriend to get a real sense of what it might be like to live in America. That's really what it came down to - we're quite confident in our relationship with one another, but she wanted a few months uninterrupted in America to see if could feel happy and at home here. But we'll figure another way to do it. Somehow. Thanks for your thoughts.

[Nich-Nick 3,354]

I have a suggestion. Have her come for 2-3 weeks and go home as scheduled. Wait a good few months in between visits. Maybe do another holiday 2 weeks. At some point they will see she has a record of returning. Then maybe she can go for a whole summer visit. You tried to ask for too many days upfront. I would be worried to ask for 90 at this point. But if she builds up a little trust in her record, then maybe a longer visit would be allowed.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Border guards in the US are interested in a sincere response to their questions.

If your girl is as articulate and honest as you are, I really do not think she would have trouble getting past secondary. Have her carry plenty of proof of a return to Scotland. The explanation of wanting to spend several months in the US before moving there is NOT a ridiculous one. I believe if it's explained fully, honestly, and sincerely at POE, she'll be admitted.

Like Boiler said, have her apply for the ESTA. If she gets a go-ahead, then buy that airline ticket (with an 88 day return) routing her through Dublin. As Dublin is a US port of entry, at least if she is completely turned around she won't have spent 8 hours in the air for the pleasure.

[semicharmdlifer 0]

Justine+David - thanks for the kind words. I know the interviewing officer was just doing their job, it just plain ole' sucks, to put it simply. That, and he was a bit of a jerk to my girlfriend, belittling her work and responding with an unsympathetic, single-worded "probably" when she asked if her denial would affect her chances of getting a VWP visa. But such is life. I'm glad you two are making it work. We will try and do the same, of course.

Nich-Nick - That is definitely a possibility, it's just that we're worried we wouldn't be able to build up enough "cred" if you will, for quite some time, perhaps not until NEXT summer. We just have no idea. I've got a call into a immigration lawyer who will hopefully call back today so I can set up an appointment and figure out what the best next step is.

JohhnyQuest - Also thanks for the kinds words. My girlfriend is articulate and very honest. Again, we're just scared that if her "evidence" of promising to return to Scotland wasn't enough for the B2 interviewer, that it won't be enough for a POE officer either. She brought with her visas from other countries where she had traveled to and returned on time, evidence of many family members living in Scotland very close to her, a letter from her boss at work stating that they were expecting her to return, and bank statements showing she had enough money to visit for an extended period and STILL they turned her down. We're worried the POE officer would do the same. :/