Hebrew Charter School - legitimate use of taxpayer money?

[scandal 951]

Unfortunately its going to suffer the same issues with being tied to a particular religion. However, as a language Arabic is much more common.

And which religion is that?

There are Arab Muslims, but there are also many Arab Christians. The Arabic language is no more tied to a particular religion than is English tied to Christianity.

If you read the article AJ linked to, it's clear they don't advocate any particular religion, are open to all students, and receive public funding. It's pretty clear they appeal primarily to people who already have a cultural tie to the local Arab-American community, but that shouldn't be a problem in and of itself.

I think these schools are ok. They are interpreting the letter of the law, following it, and applying it to best advantage for their communities. There's nothing wrong with that.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

However, as a language Arabic is much more common.

From their FAQ's:

Research shows study of a foreign language at an early age correlates with higher academic achievement and SAT test scores as well as increased cognitive development and problem-solving abilities.

I'd imagine that's true whether they were teaching a popular language like Mandarin or an obscure language like Klingon.

[Dan J 277]

No, not really. I'm not even certain there is a problem. If there was a problem, it would be a purposeful circumventing of the separation between church and state by this school. If that was the problem, it would also raise the strong possibility that bureaucrats in the state capital approved this charter school's application for reasons other than the application's merit.

That all said, I'm still unconvinced there is a problem.

I don't think there is any problem with language immersion schools, and I think we would actually be better off with them. However, if the state is going to fund these school, they should be teaching a language that has a significant economic opportunity. I really don't think Hebrew is one of those languages.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I don't think there is any problem with language immersion schools, and I think we would actually be better off with them. However, if the state is going to fund these school, they should be teaching a language that has a significant economic opportunity. I really don't think Hebrew is one of those languages.

If the goal is to help students cognitively, what does it matter what the economic opportunities are?

[Dan J 277]

If the goal is to help students cognitively, what does it matter what the economic opportunities are?

If this was a private school, who cares. But since its getting public funding, that money should be used in ways that best benefit the state overall. The state does not have an unlimited amount of resources, and with two teachers in the classroom, it probably costs more to educate these students than it does students in other schools. That can be justified if the students are learning languages that have more use than Hebrew.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Here's another one, in Brooklyn:

(AP) - The south Brooklyn neighborhood of Mill Basin is a racially diverse mix, with immigrants from Asia, a number of Spanish-speaking countries and the former Soviet Union.

Backers of a new charter school specializing in Hebrew set to open there in the fall say all of those ethnic and religious groups will be attracted to the academic institution, not just Jews.

But while the school's organizers say they will offer top-quality instruction without crossing church-state boundaries, critics say public schools should not celebrate one particular culture.

"They're trying to transmit cultural values and identity, and that's not the purpose of a public school," said Michael Meyers, executive director of the New York Civil Rights Coalition.

...

The Hebrew school's board chairwoman, Sara Berman, said ... Jewish and non-Jewish students alike will benefit from learning Hebrew.

"We really believe that learning a second language helps children in other ways besides the language itself," she said, citing studies that suggest that language instruction stimulates brain development.

...

Maureen Gonzalez-Campbell, a veteran educator ... has been chosen as the principal of the Hebrew charter school.

"Any opportunity for your child to learn a second language, whether it's Hebrew or any other language, is beneficial," said Ms. Gonzalez-Campbell, who is African-American and speaks no Hebrew herself.

...

Diane Ravitch, a professor of education at New York University and a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, said in an op-ed piece in the Daily News that she objected to the Hebrew school ... because a public school should not be "centered on the teaching of a single non-American culture."

"We don't send children to public schools to learn to be Chinese or Russian or Greek or Korean," Ms. Ravitch said. "We send them to learn to be American."

...with two teachers in the classroom, it probably costs more to educate these students than it does students in other schools.

The public school district has to pay 90% of the cost of educating one student to the charter school for each student that goes there.

90% is less than 100%.

The shortfall, if there is one, will be covered by private grants. The taxpayer saves 10% however you look at it.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Here's another one, in Brooklyn:

Almost sounds like a formula. I wonder if the two schools seeking charters are from the same organization.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Almost sounds like a formula. I wonder if the two schools seeking charters are from the same organization.

It does sound like a formula, doesn't it?

FWIW if you read the article I linked to a few posts ago about the Arabic charter schools in Ohio, they are all run by the same organization.

[Ali G. 37]

No, not really. I'm not even certain there is a problem. If there was a problem, it would be a purposeful circumventing of the separation between church and state by this school. If that was the problem, it would also raise the strong possibility that bureaucrats in the state capital approved this charter school's application for reasons other than the application's merit.

That all said, I'm still unconvinced there is a problem.

You know how libertarians work.

Federal government = source of problem

Gonorrhea = Federal government to blame

Black holes = Federal government to blame

...

[Ali G. 37]

Leaving funding to the parent's school of choice has delivered excellent results abroad.

Never heard of charter schools though..

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Never heard of charter schools though..

read up on it. interesting concept.

[scandal 951]

90% is less than 100%.

The shortfall, if there is one, will be covered by private grants. The taxpayer saves 10% however you look at it.

I think D+G point is that if the per-pupil costs are higher due to extra staff, than they would have been in a standard public school, then why should the public purse have to pick up the extra cost?

Let's say running the Hebrew charter school costs 150% of a regular school (just to make up a higher number).

Then 90% funding X 150% = 135% that the state would pay. 135% is still higher than 100%.

I went to a Jewish private school in Ontario Canada. My father paid my tuition the entire way through, there was never any public funding.

Ontario, and Canada, do not have the Constitutionally mandated separation of Church and State that the US has.

However, Ontario has a policy which dates to Confederation by which Catholic separate schools in the province receive public funding.

Jewish community groups in Ontario have fought this policy on the grounds that it is discriminatory and favors one religion (Catholicism) over others (Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, etc.) which are not entitled to the special status of Catholic schools in Ontario. The verdict of the courts and political echelons for the past 2 decades has basically been, screw you.

All the more reason to favor the American approach which makes a determined stand against such favored treatment for a particular minority group.

Reference to this issue: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separate_school

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I think D+G point is that if the per-pupil costs are higher due to extra staff, than they would have been in a standard public school, then why should the public purse have to pick up the extra cost?

Let's say running the Hebrew charter school costs 150% of a regular school (just to make up a higher number).

Then 90% funding X 150% = 135% that the state would pay. 135% is still higher than 100%.

No, that's not how it works. It's 90% of the public school district's costs. Not 90% of the charter school's costs.

[Danno 1,228]

Not really sure if I am for... or against it but I think there is little doubt most of the "cultural charter schools" end up being Segregation-lite. Sure there is a small amount of diversity in faces but, the environment keeps a collar on that.

How wrong am I?

[scandal 951]

Not really sure if I am for... or against it but I think there is little doubt most of the "cultural charter schools" end up being Segregation-lite. Sure there is a small amount of diversity in faces but, the environment keeps a collar on that.

How wrong am I?

I don't think they're necessarily any less diverse than public schools. A public school in a poor inner city neighborhood is going to be 90+% African American/Latino (depending upon the city and neighborhood). A public school in a prosperous upper middle class white suburb is going to be... guess what.. 90+% white upper middle class.

I think magnet schools, which intentionally draw students from widely diverse backgrounds across a community, are often the most diverse in their student population mixes.