Is this revised plan workable? So many issues!

[wotamuppet 0]

Hello everyone, pleased to meet you all!

Just when I thought we had the Master Plan worked out I stumbled upon the Canada section of this forum and realised a serious re-think was in order.

My mind is a mess and my head is going round in circles but I've kind of come up with Master Plan II, The Sequel and would really appreciate any advice.

Briefly, I am British and living in the UK. My husband is dual US/Canadian, he was born and has lived his entire life in Canada but got his US passport 18 months ago as his late mother was American.

Both of us want to live in the US ultimately. Well, ASAP.

He is physically in the US at the moment as we met up to do a course last month, he stayed on to get his driver's licence. He WAS going to head back to Canada after this (for reasons I shall explain) but I can see now this will have to be played slightly differently.

The reason we were going to try and be together initially in Canada is because he cannot at this time satisfy the requirements of the I-864. Canada has no support requirements for a spouse alone and also is ok with you being together there whilst the process is in progress. So basically it seemed the logical thing to do whilst we sorted ourselves out financially to enable us to then file for the US.

In the year we have been together we have spent 45 weeks apart so obviously we are keen to get a common residency as quickly as possible. It was made much harder by the fact he was twice refused entry to visit me in the UK, I have 5 dogs which my mother will only look after for a couple of weeks at a time so our options have been very limited.

He has tried to get work where he is (just to test the water) but keeps coming up against the same problem, he cannot background check (also credit check, if the job requires this). The only work he can get is casual, with an agency. Obviously this isn't acceptable for sponsorship purposes. This is further compounded by the fact he always worked in the family business so has pretty specialised skills, and also he can't provide impartial references. He's only going for minimum wage jobs, even dishwashers are being asked for 1-2 years verifiable experience, 3 references and background checks!!

Now, our original plan for sponsorship anticipated he wouldn't get suitable work and was to use assets in lieu of income. We planned to self build a house on land we have in Canada, then rent it out so it'd serve as an asset AND income. I was planning to meet him there this Spring, and get started....then I read the sticky thread about domicile issues and started panicking...

Now, without us actually realising he appears to have done the right thing, because of learning to drive he's had to get an address, SS card and stuff. He's opened a bank account and spoken to the IRS. His state deems him a resident if he spends a minimum of 7 months out of each year there. He will also be registering and insuring the car there.

SO...how about if he keeps renting his room, he takes a 5 month vacation to Canada this summer, I take an extended vacation to Canada too from my home in the UK and he files whichever route we decide in the US before leaving? I know our building thing sounds dubious and ambitious but we are building in traditional log style which is very different to regular methods. We have the trees on our land, a trailer to live in and savings to hopefully see us through.

I just feel from reading people's experiences that he needs to cut all his legal ties with Canada, but I am guessing that vacationing there would be ok as he is free to move back and forth without having to give details to anyone.

Also I did see a couple of things that concerned me in reading, the thing about one couple had to sell their house in Canada (when we were planning on using ours as income) and another had to give up Canadian PR (would they expect him to relinquish his Canadian citizenship? It IS possible but it's complex and seems a bit extreme. Also, would they hold self-employment against you as it's not actually a "job" in the sense they could be looking for?

Anyway, I would really appreciate any advice or comments, when I mentioned interviews in Montreal hubs groaned...he's from Quebec province, right on the border though and so went to school and did everything in Ontario...in his eyes Montreal says it all lol. Interestingly I've looked on the UK forums and not seen any evidence of this domicile thing being a deal-breaker, even when the couple are both living in the UK and NOT working for a US company or any of their other criteria. I guess I thought it'd be easier in Canada, looks like I was wrong on that one...

Thanks again,

Michelle

[trailmix 77]

Hi Michelle,

Basically - no, he won't be asked to give up his Canadian citizenship - well at least no one has been asked yet (however if it ever happens I will write to every newspaper in Canada, so just keep your eyes on the local paper haha)

I personally don't see anything wrong with your plan. Just a couple of things I will mention. The log cabin/rental/asset - i'm not sure where this land is or what the value is of the land or what the value of the house will be but I am sure you have looked at the poverty guidelines and are comfortable that those can be met. Here is the question - will they accept Canadian property/rental income for the affidavit of support? I don't know. In theory it should work, in practice - I have never seen anyone use Canadian hard assets.

I'm sure you did read here that someone sold their house, but no, you are not required to.

[wotamuppet 0]

Thanks for your reply, trailmix.

This pesky I-864 is something I've done tons of reading on in the past, here's a C&P from the USCIS site, it's probably a pretty rare way of doing it but hey, we have no choice but to be alternative lol. Hopefully it may help someone else too in this age of unemployment...

If You Can’t Meet the Minimum Income Requirements

If you cannot meet the minimum income requirements using your earned income, you have various options:

* You may add the cash value of your assets. This includes money in savings accounts, stocks, bonds, and property. To determine the amount of assets required to qualify, subtract your household income from the minimum income requirement (125% of the poverty level for your family size). You must prove the cash value of your assets is worth five times this difference (the amount left over).

o Exceptions:

+ If the person being sponsored is a spouse, or son/daughter (who is 18 years or older) of a U.S. citizen: The minimum cash value of assets must be three times the difference between the sponsor’s household income and 125% of the federal poverty guide line for the household.

+ If the person being sponsored is an orphan coming to the United States for adoption: The adoptive parents’ assets need to equal or exceed the difference between the household income and 125% of the federal poverty line for the household size.

* You may count the income and assets of members of your household who are related to you by birth, marriage, or adoption. To use their income you must have listed them as dependents on your most recent federal tax return or they must have lived with you for the last 6 months. They must also complete a Form I-864A, Contract between Sponsor and Household Member. If the relative you are sponsoring meets these criteria you may include the value of their income and assets, but the immigrant does not need to complete Form I-864A unless he or she has accompanying family members.

* You may count the assets of the relatives you are sponsoring.

Sooooo, it appears $54k of assets would be sufficient to sponsor a spouse only, they don't say they have to be in the US, also they could include my assets (if I had any, after the previous divorce lol).

Edited March 12, 2010 by wotamuppet

[Udella&Wiz 325]

Explain why you're hell bent on the US? Wouldn't it be easier to stay in Canada for a while? Or forever ? It's not a bad place Especially if your hubster is having such a hard time finding employment in the US among other things.

[wotamuppet 0]

Explain why you're hell bent on the US? Wouldn't it be easier to stay in Canada for a while? Or forever ? It's not a bad place Especially if your hubster is having such a hard time finding employment in the US among other things.

It's nothing personal against Canada, honest!!

Hubs has wanted to live in the US for some time now, we are both huge fans of the Wild West and various other pursuits that are kind of specific to the south-western states.

Also I suffer from arthritis, which the cold doesn't do any favours for. We were planning on working for ourselves anyway, he's only been trying to work to avoid depleting our savings. Basically, he got caught up in a Grand Canyon sized family rift and decided it was time to move on.

Michelle.

[trailmix 77]

Sooooo, it appears $54k of assets would be sufficient to sponsor a spouse only, they don't say they have to be in the US, also they could include my assets (if I had any, after the previous divorce lol).

Yes, I have read the I-864 a few times too - so I figured this excerpt was what you were basing your plan on.

I guess all I was saying is that it is untried - you really need to come up with a plan B as well. I guess you are going to have many hours out on the land to think one up! What is in the guidelines and what happens in practice can sometimes be two different things.

For instance there is that one person here on VJ who had cash assets and went through the consulate in Italy and they were forced to move all their cash to a U.S. bank account - makes no sense, but there you have it.

Edited March 12, 2010 by trailmix

[wotamuppet 0]

Yes, I have read the I-864 a few times too - so I figured this excerpt was what you were basing your plan on.

I guess all I was saying is that it is untried - you really need to come up with a plan B as well. I guess you are going to have many hours out on the land to think one up! What is in the guidelines and what happens in practice can sometimes be two different things.

For instance there is that one person here on VJ who had cash assets and went through the consulate in Italy and they were forced to move all their cash to a U.S. bank account - makes no sense, but there you have it.

Our Plan B would be to be in Canada until we could jump through whatever hoops they wanted. Luckily the Canadian immigration system works differently so that should be feasible.

I know they say assests have to be easily liquidated and the person in Italy situation doesn't surprise me, if we had to sell and stick the money in a US account then that's fine, as long as it keeps Uncle Sam happy

Edited March 12, 2010 by wotamuppet

[wotamuppet 0]

Just a thought, if this is a pretty rare way of doing things would it be of any benefit to use an immigration lawyer, who may know of a better way of presenting the case?

You know, at the end of the day we just want to be together, if it can be in the US then that's a bonus. We've both had really bad stuff happen to us in our respective home countries, the US would be a fresh start for the both of us.

I DO really like Canada though, it sure beats the heck out of the UK!!!

[Hugglebuggles 60]

I'm not going to lie, I'm pretty confused here...

So, just to clarify. Your Canadian/American husband wants to file a spousal visa for you from the US, where he currently lives, but is unemployed and therefore has concerns that he cannot meet the I-864 requirements. So, in order to do that, you are considering building a house in Canada on land he currently owns and using that income property as assets. But here's where I got a little confused. Where does the Canada equation and domicile concerns come in? Do you want to come live in Canada and apply for Canadian PR while this spousal visa is being processed, or before you even start the process? Or do you ideally want him to petition you from the UK and have you move to directly to the US. Because in that scenario, I don't see how him owning property in Canada would be an issue as far as domicile is concerned. If he is living in the US, I don't see the foreign consulate in the UK being concerned with what business he has in Canada. Couldn't you both just take an extended visit to Canada, like you suggested, get your house building process started, return to the UK and have him petition you from there?

Then, the backup plan is living in Canada- makes sense. But when does the backup plan go into effect? If being together in the quickest way possible your priority or is being together in the US as soon as possible the priority? Because the Canada route would be quicker and easier, but it would also make getting to the US harder as you have discovered.

This seems pretty complicated, but at least you have options right? Options are never bad!

I'm curious as to where you want to settle in the wild west. The husband and I live in Colorado, not exactly wild, but definitely west!

[wotamuppet 0]

I'm not going to lie, I'm pretty confused here...

So, just to clarify. Your Canadian/American husband wants to file a spousal visa for you from the US, where he currently lives, but is unemployed and therefore has concerns that he cannot meet the I-864 requirements. So, in order to do that, you are considering building a house in Canada on land he currently owns and using that income property as assets. But here's where I got a little confused. Where does the Canada equation and domicile concerns come in? Do you want to come live in Canada and apply for Canadian PR while this spousal visa is being processed, or before you even start the process? Or do you ideally want him to petition you from the UK and have you move to directly to the US. Because in that scenario, I don't see how him owning property in Canada would be an issue as far as domicile is concerned. If he is living in the US, I don't see the foreign consulate in the UK being concerned with what business he has in Canada. Couldn't you both just take an extended visit to Canada, like you suggested, get your house building process started, return to the UK and have him petition you from there?

Then, the backup plan is living in Canada- makes sense. But when does the backup plan go into effect? If being together in the quickest way possible your priority or is being together in the US as soon as possible the priority? Because the Canada route would be quicker and easier, but it would also make getting to the US harder as you have discovered.

This seems pretty complicated, but at least you have options right? Options are never bad!

I'm curious as to where you want to settle in the wild west. The husband and I live in Colorado, not exactly wild, but definitely west!

YES, IT'S COMPLICATED!!

To take it bit by bit...he didn't go to the US looking for work, we did a class in neighboring Nevada last month. We hope to settle in Arizona so when I had to come back to the UK he went there to get a feel for the state (from a living perspective) and also he needed to get his driver's licence. He just wanted to get some work so as not to be a drain on our savings, it wasn't essential. He is doing agency work, which is fine. We knew permanent employment would likely be an issue so that's why we had previously decided to do it based on assets.

We had the land in Canada, all ready to build so that seemed the obvious choice.

Now, the rethink of plans came when I saw that the domicile/re-establishing domicile appeared to be a major issue. I was going to come over to Canada this summer and most likely file for residency (of Canada) while we got building, sorted ourselves out and then, likely in about a year or so filed for the US.

Obviously if I filed for PR that would have meant him joining me and therefore abandoning his US domicile. In theory it should be simple enough to re-establish BUT reading the sticky thread though appears to indicate huge problems doing just that. Re-establishing domicile appears to have been made extremely difficult, no matter what evidence you have...basically if you have one then best hang on to it. That's why I say about him keeping his US address and "vacationing" in Canada. If I forget trying for Canadian PR then I can avoid this "Montreal" issue by being interviewed in London. It doesn't seem to be a problem there for people it similarly affects, and it wouldn't affect me at all as if I was in the UK hubs would be in the US, not Canada.

The reason he can't come over here is because he's on their "blacklist" and refused entry twice. He's done nothing wrong, they just refused to believe he intended to return to the US or Canada at the end of his visit

So yeah, the plan is we "vacation" in Canada, then go our separate ways whilst Uncle Sam does his thang, if there are problems we get together in Canada which is very different, immigration-wise.

Hope that makes sense, in a way it's been harder as we've had extra options! The confusion is kind of disippating now things are sinking in more, thank goodness I found this forum and found out what I did!!

Btw we are looking at the Tucson area, Oro Valley, Marana etc-I'm a real cactus fiend and am dying to have my own saguaro...not much chance of that in Canada lol. And I've got loads of pairs of cowboy (or should that be cowgirl?) boots...always wanted to ride western too...yee harrrrr!!

[trailmix 77]

Reestablishing domicile - I haven't updated the sticky thread in a while, but at least 1 person was approved this week who did have to prove reestablishing domicile - Edmontongirl, although she had above and beyond proof - an unusual case.

It can be done, it just needs to be approached correctly and thoroughly from the beginning. In 98% of cases where there has been a request for further documents the applicant was not trying to prove reestablishing domicile, they attempted to prove they were already domiciled in the U.S. - an almost impossible task.

I just mention this as understanding that part of it might make a difference as to what you choose to do, ie: maybe file DCF in Canada after you have been here for a while.

Edited March 12, 2010 by trailmix

[wotamuppet 0]

Reestablishing domicile - I haven't updated the sticky thread in a while, but at least 1 person was approved this week who did have to prove reestablishing domicile - Edmontongirl, although she had above and beyond proof - an unusual case.

It can be done, it just needs to be approached correctly and thoroughly from the beginning. In 98% of cases where there has been a request for further documents the applicant was not trying to prove reestablishing domicile, they attempted to prove they were already domiciled in the U.S. - an almost impossible task.

I just mention this as understanding that part of it might make a difference as to what you choose to do, ie: maybe file DCF in Canada after you have been here for a while.

Thanks trailminx, I appreciate your advice.

I think the important thing, as you say, is approach it correctly and thoroughly-make a plan and stick with it.

I'll have a good look into the the options over the next couple of weeks, I'm a big one for planning ahead and looking into all the angles possible, I've a fair bit of experience in real estate so if we did decide to go Plan B and live in Canada for a bit and go DCF we could aim to set something up down there that'd hopefully qualify us, given that he'd given up his US domicile.

I think I can see where they are coming from so I'll plan with that in mind.

[Hugglebuggles 60]

I think I get it now! A complicated case for sure, but I'm sure you'll do the right thing! Arizona is a great place to be

Just a wild thought... Cash on hand can be considered as assets, correct? So, would it perhaps be possible to sell your land up in Canada and put that money into a savings account? You would of course lose out on the income you could get from the property itself, but you wouldn't need to worry about that compelling tie to Canada that may cause you problems later.

[Dakine10 5,452]

I think your husband will have a hard time showing that his principal residence is in the USA (to meet the terms of the affidavit of support). On the surface, renting a room and not having a job and never having had a previous residence or US employment would be questionable. Add that to the fact that he has always lived in Canada and the only property you guys have will be in Canada. Doesn't make me think he's living in the USA so I don't know why USCIS would buy it.

IMO, you would have an easier time if he actually lived in the USA, got whatever work he could get, and use the value of your assets to make up the difference.

The one part I might do would be to build the cabin on the land, but then I would look at selling everything and seeing if that would be enough cash. But if I already had enough assets, I wouldn't even bother with that. Life is already too short.

Edited March 13, 2010 by Dakine10

[ashenflowers 5]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is a co-sponsor. I know you said your husband had family issues, but is there anyone in the U.S. that he knows who might be able to co-sponsor you? Just wondering. It might make things easier. My husband lost his job the day I arrived in California. Seriously. So that pretty much effed up our entire plans, and now we have to get a co-sponsor since he has no income.