Wal-Mart ICE Raids - Hoax?

[Ali G. 37]

Maybe not, but I would say those invading from the south pose a greater threat than those in the middle east....

Concur. The middle east, in particular Al Qaeda, pulled a fast one on us. Basically it was sheer luck rather than some grand scheme. Granted if or when they get their hands on a WMD, they will use it. So how would they get it in?? Gezz I don't know, maybe straight across the southern border..

Lets not even get started on the economic drain of illegal aliens, which runs well into the double digit billions.

Treating economic migrants as if they members of an invading army to be shot on sight runs counter to our supposedly civilized values.

The army would act as a deterrent. The US has every right to secure and protect their borders.

Edited March 11, 2010 by Booyah

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Treating economic migrants as if they members of an invading army to be shot on sight runs counter to our supposedly civilized values.

I agree to an extent.

There needs to be domestic punishments for employers and less incentive to come in here as well.

At the same time though, who knows what those individuals might be carrying with them either....

It's one of those things where we'll sit here and make our own citizens be picked and prodded at an airport, but it wouldn't be too hard to cross the border with a bomb ready to detonate and walk into a hospital in San Diego.......

If the "economic migrants" (still criminals mind you crossing illegally) can get in, then it makes you wonder who else can get in......

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The army would act as a deterrent. The US has every right to secure and protect their borders.

Yes, they do. But that doesn't involve displaying bullet riddled corpses as a "warning"

[Sc0tt28 26]

Concur. The middle east, in particular Al Qaeda, pulled a fast one on us. Basically it was sheer luck rather than some grand scheme. Granted if or when they get their hands on a WMD, they will use it. So how would they get it in?? Gezz I don't know, maybe straight across the southern border..

Lets not even get started on the economic drain of illegal aliens, which runs well into the double digit billions.

The army would act as a deterrent. The US has every right to secure and protect their borders.

Unfortunately it would only act as a deterrant once a handful of people were made examples of to show that we actually mean it.

[Sc0tt28 26]

Treating economic migrants as if they members of an invading army to be shot on sight runs counter to our supposedly civilized values.

Ok, so the argument is that immigrants "made" this country right? And we would still be living in the stone age without them right? Because of all their ingenuity and talent and hard work. Pioneers that braved the perils of hardship and earned their just reward.

Give me a reason why these "economic migrants" can't build their country into the most prosperous and generous country in the world...surpassing the United States as a world power and creating a new country to which illegals wish to immigrate. Perhaps even unemployed US citizens would risk deportation to have a chance to make their dreams come true in this wonderful country.

Their country won't allow it? Their government stifles their freedom to learn and invent? Then dig deep, find some of that courage, and do what America did and revolt against said government and bring about the government that will allow you to build a prosperous nation.

Before you give a reason why the "economic migrants" can't complete this task, to you I say:

"...it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security."

--Excerpt from the Declaration of Independence

[Ali G. 37]

If the "economic migrants" (still criminals mind you crossing illegally) can get in, then it makes you wonder who else can get in......

With many uneducated simple folks might I add. As you said, who else has caught on to this 24/7 unmanned entrance.

[luckytxn 2,264]

I agree to an extent.

There needs to be domestic punishments for employers and less incentive to come in here as well.

At the same time though, who knows what those individuals might be carrying with them either....

It's one of those things where we'll sit here and make our own citizens be picked and prodded at an airport, but it wouldn't be too hard to cross the border with a bomb ready to detonate and walk into a hospital in San Diego.......

If the "economic migrants" (still criminals mind you crossing illegally) can get in, then it makes you wonder who else can get in......

That is the keyword and they are criminals. The employers are criminals.

Mexico is a beautiful country and abounds in a lot of natural resources that should and could be used more fully exploited to ensure a nice rate of return for their citizenry. Instead there is a lot of corruption and racism in their own country that the centralized powers use to ensure a majority of their citizens stay in poverty. It helps not that we are subsidizing the corruption by allowing this invasion of criminals into our country and let them send money back so they can help their family. We would be helping them by making sure that they can't just come here and funnel dollars back home. They would then be forced to start trying to go back and get their own country back on track. They are taking the path of least resistance.

Most are not criminals until they cross over here illegally but when they do they should feel heat their entire stay here. The people that employ them should always be made to watch over their shoulders. Their assets should be seized like we do the drug dealers. They should be fined and even sent to jail like any other criminals.

I saw story on a program that tried to elicit sympathy for an illegal that had been here for years and married and was the father of two and how sending him back deprived the kids of a father. Well boo hoo. He was a criminal. It is too bad that the kids father was a criminal. He was a very bad father and set a bad example. Most here would condemn me if I did something illegal and say good riddance and send me to jail if I broke a law. No one here would weep for me

I also have many friends that are hispanic and not one of them likes the illegals. They figured they came here legally so why should they be happy that others get a free ride. They also hate that illegals depress their wages and make their lives harder by extra scrutiny. Some are in the same boat as us here and are trying to get family here legally but find it hard because there is so much fraud.

[Ali G. 37]

Ok, so the argument is that immigrants "made" this country right? And we would still be living in the stone age without them right? Because of all their ingenuity and talent and hard work. Pioneers that braved the perils of hardship and earned their just reward.

Give me a reason why these "economic migrants" can't build their country into the most prosperous and generous country in the world...surpassing the United States as a world power and creating a new country to which illegals wish to immigrate. Perhaps even unemployed US citizens would risk deportation to have a chance to make their dreams come true in this wonderful country.

Their country won't allow it? Their government stifles their freedom to learn and invent? Then dig deep, find some of that courage, and do what America did and revolt against said government and bring about the government that will allow you to build a prosperous nation.

Before you give a reason why the "economic migrants" can't complete this task, to you I say:

"...it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security."

--Excerpt from the Declaration of Independence

The irony is that I created a thread illustrating that the world's richest man is now from Mexico and is actually from Lebanese folks that immigrated to Mexico.

There is zero economic gain in allowing uneducated and poor illegal aliens into a country. All it has done is drained limited government resources and created an unlimited supply of workers for businesses, allowing them to pay even less.

Edited March 11, 2010 by Booyah

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Ok, so the argument is that immigrants "made" this country right? And we would still be living in the stone age without them right? Because of all their ingenuity and talent and hard work. Pioneers that braved the perils of hardship and earned their just reward.

Are you suggesting that this is my argument?

I said no such thing.

I did say that subjecting migrants to summary execution is barbaric and runs completely counter to American values (not to mention several layers of international law). It's the usual ham-handed thinking that these things can be "resolved" if only there were enough bullets and people to pull the triggers.

Give me a reason why these "economic migrants" can't build their country into the most prosperous and generous country in the world...surpassing the United States as a world power and creating a new country to which illegals wish to immigrate. Perhaps even unemployed US citizens would risk deportation to have a chance to make their dreams come true in this wonderful country.

Corruption here (because we want cheap labour) and corruption there (underemployment, widespread povety, human rights abuses, political systems that disenfranchise voters).

Their country won't allow it? Their government stifles their freedom to learn and invent? Then dig deep, find some of that courage, and do what America did and revolt against said government and bring about the government that will allow you to build a prosperous nation.

Before you give a reason why the "economic migrants" can't complete this task, to you I say:

"...it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security."

--Excerpt from the Declaration of Independence

I understand. With enough jingoism, we can avoid actually talking about the problem

[Ali G. 37]

I understand. With enough jingoism, we can avoid actually talking about the problem

When did the rest of the world becomes America's responsibility? That is what many of you lets fix their country so they don't come here don't get. Half the products I buy here already come from Mexico. What else do you want the country to do?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

When did the rest of the world becomes America's responsibility? That is what many of you lets fix their country so they don't come here don't get. Half the products I buy here already come from Mexico. What else do you want the country to do?

I don't know, BY.

I don't have a solution for any of this - problem is too large and too complex for me, which is presumably why I haven't pursued a career in frontline politics.

Anyone can say "kill 'em all, that'll learn 'em". I could say it, but I won't because it occurs to me that it is a stupid idea - that people only throw out because they don't have enough imagination to think of something better.

[Ali G. 37]

"Kill em all!" is a joke.

The US has to tackle their own poverty before they can help others. However it's quite evident that politicians are having their pockets lined, therefore, have no real interest in tackling the issue. They make a PR stunt by catch a few every now and then to pretend they are doing something, when in reality they are not. Most of us here agree with a simply strategy of punishing those who hire them than the people. Strange how our government is not able to come up with the same heavy handed fines for anyone employing them. Instead they receive a slap on the wrist and told not to do it again. Fine them like the UK does, 15,000 pounds on-the-spot, and that will get employers thinking.

Edited March 11, 2010 by Booyah

[Sc0tt28 26]

Are you suggesting that this is my argument?

I said no such thing.

You are right in that you said no such thing.

So what is your position regarding illegal immigration?

The proponents argument is always the same: immigrants "built" America, and therefore they have a "right" to be here (apparently illegally or otherwise).

Please tell me you have a different point of view, I would love to hear it.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I believe that you can't fix the problem without addressing the reason for the migration - which is poverty and lack of economic opportunities in the home country. Obviously the extent to which the US can do this is limited, so really the only thing that can be done directly is to tackle the employers and firming up the laws to curtail identity theft.

I also believe that with so many hispanic/latino USCs having significant family ties south of the border (much the same as 3rd - 4th generation Indian/Pakistani immigrants in the UK have to their respective countries) that this is always going to be an issue - and that you will always be dealing with illegal immigration in some form or other.

You'll have to live with it, I'm afraid.

[Nagishkaw 510]

"Kill em all!" is a joke.