Obtaining court ordered sole custody in Thailand

[bowdy 0]

My wife is a Thai citizen and has two children from a previous marriage with a Japanese citizen. Their divorce in Japan grants her sole parental power. The divorce was reviewed by the Thai embassy in Tokyo and documented on form "Kor Ror 22."

After reading through the forums it seems that we will still need permission from the children's father to bring them to the US. He's made it pretty clear that he's not going to provide his permission.

Is it possible to obtain certification of my wife's sole parental power over her children through a Thai court?

Would that be sufficient to obtain the children's visas?

[daboyz 36]

My wife is a Thai citizen and has two children from a previous marriage with a Japanese citizen. Their divorce in Japan grants her sole parental power. The divorce was reviewed by the Thai embassy in Tokyo and documented on form "Kor Ror 22."

After reading through the forums it seems that we will still need permission from the children's father to bring them to the US. He's made it pretty clear that he's not going to provide his permission.

Is it possible to obtain certification of my wife's sole parental power over her children through a Thai court?

Would that be sufficient to obtain the children's visas?

You need to talk to an attorney in Thailand. Maybe Siam Legal.

http://www.siam-legal.com/

[thongd4me 69]

My wife is a Thai citizen and has two children from a previous marriage with a Japanese citizen. Their divorce in Japan grants her sole parental power. The divorce was reviewed by the Thai embassy in Tokyo and documented on form "Kor Ror 22."

After reading through the forums it seems that we will still need permission from the children's father to bring them to the US. He's made it pretty clear that he's not going to provide his permission.

Is it possible to obtain certification of my wife's sole parental power over her children through a Thai court?

Would that be sufficient to obtain the children's visas?

You may talk to an attorney in Thailand, the US or Japan

but any of the 3 may get you the same result (bad).

The best may be an attorney in Japan, if what you say is accurate

(Their divorce in Japan grants her sole parental power.) The trick they

use is the divorce MAY BE enforceable in Japan but not OUTSIDE.

If your wife goes to Japan she may be able to get (grudgingly)

some custody rights and ONLY if the father agrees but almost

definitely not in Thailand. Siamlegal will probably tell you that.

Having been divorced (in NY State) to a Japanese citizen, she has more rights

than me regarding the children despite the fact I am a US citizen.

In fact, in the eyes of the law, NY State treats all divorced men with

equal unfairness regardless of race, creed or national origin.

That being said, here's a bit of not-so-good news:

"Japan is not a party to the 1980 Hague Convention

on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction."

Read it and weep:

Japan is NOT a Hague participant

"Japanese civil law stresses that in cases where custody cannot be reached by agreement between the parents, the Japanese Family Court will resolve the issue based on the best interests of the child. However, compliance with Family Court rulings is essentially voluntary, which renders any ruling unenforceable unless both parents agree."

The Japanese citizen is well aware of his country's jingoistic* attitude and your best bet

is probably getting John Rambo out of retirement.

*Extreme nationalism characterized especially by a belligerent foreign policy; chauvinistic patriotism.

Edited March 10, 2010 by thongd4me

[thongd4me 69]

Essentially the State Department is talking about cases where the Japanese citizen

abducted kid(s) from the US in defiance of a US divorce decree.

The fact that there was no US divorce decree in your particular case doesn't make

your Thai wife's problems any worse. They are already as bad as they can get, because

"The Department of State is not aware of any case in which a child taken from the United States by one parent has been ordered returned to the United States by Japanese courts, even when the left-behind parent has a United States custody decree."

Would there be better chances of "returning" the child to Thailand if the child

had never been taken out of Japan in the first place? Not by a long shot.

Whether the court order was from Japan or Thailand is meaningless.

Japanese officials turn a blind eye in either case.

Edited March 10, 2010 by thongd4me

[bowdy 0]

Wow! Thanks to everyone for the quick responses. Here's some more information to clarify our situation.

My wife is residing with me in the US. We've submitted our AOS paperwork. Her children are listed on our I-129F.

Her divorce was granted in Japan and provides her with sole parental power.

Her divorce documents were reviewed by the Thai ministry in Tokyo at which time they provided her with form "Kor. Ror. 22" titled "The Family Status Registration." This document states, "...consent for 2 children to be under sole parental power of the mother according to the Japanese registration certificate..."

Her children are presently residing in Thailand with her sister and mother, so they're set to immigrate once we have visas.

Does anyone have any experience with this "Kor. Ror. 22" document? Do you think it establishes sole parental power to the extent that a letter from the father will not be required for the visa interview?

Thanks Again!

[thongd4me 69]

Wow! Thanks to everyone for the quick responses. Here's some more information to clarify our situation.

My wife is residing with me in the US. We've submitted our AOS paperwork. Her children are listed on our I-129F.

Her divorce was granted in Japan and provides her with sole parental power.

Her divorce documents were reviewed by the Thai ministry in Tokyo at which time they provided her with form "Kor. Ror. 22" titled "The Family Status Registration." This document states, "...consent for 2 children to be under sole parental power of the mother according to the Japanese registration certificate..."

Her children are presently residing in Thailand with her sister and mother, so they're set to immigrate once we have visas.

Does anyone have any experience with this "Kor. Ror. 22" document? Do you think it establishes sole parental power to the extent that a letter from the father will not be required for the visa interview?

Thanks Again!

That changes everything. They should be good to go.

Your original post didn't state that the children were in Thailand.

Because you said

...After reading through the forums it seems that we will

still need permission from the children's father to bring them to the US.

He's made it pretty clear that he's not going to provide his permission...

I assumed the kids were in Japan with him due to his having been allowed to let them visit him.

If the kids were with him in Japan, your situation would have been more than desperate.

He doesn't know the law any more than you do. He is hoping for the kids to be denied

entry to the US while he already signed off on custody and allowed the kids to exit Japan.

He also figures incorrectly (despite the registration of the custody in Thailand) that

Thailand would want to send the kids back to Japan maybe because of some Asian

loyalty notion.

If the Japanese divorce clearly gives custody to your wife, I don't see why his

permission is needed. Normally permission would be needed to allow the children to

exit the country of the parent who is a citizen there. The kids have already left

Japanese soil so (logically) how or why would Japan have any say in the children

leaving Thailand? You don't need Siam Legal to sort that out, but you need to

check with USCIS to be sure that the Japanese father doesn't have to sign off

on their entering the US to satisfy any immigration rule in the US, not Japan.

I don't think any such rule exists, but I'm not a lawyer nor have I played one.

I don't think this is a question which would really require the services of a lawyer,

as there has been no breach of regulations and nobody has over-stayed a visa.

Ask the USCIS. They should be able to clear this up.

Another question that came to mind: What is the citizenship status of the kids?

Do they have dual Thai/Japanese citizenship? Again, if they are Thai citizens

the US should not even recognize their Japanese citizenship, because the US

does not recognize dual citizenship. If they were GUESTS in Thailand having

sole Japanese citizenship, then the wishes of the father MIGHT come into play,

but again, check with the USCIS. You do not have to ask for any permission from

Japan or a Japanese citizen unless the US tells you to.

Think on this: When the kids left Japan, did the Japanese authorities state that

they could ONLY travel to Thailand? I think not.

Edited March 11, 2010 by thongd4me