Happy Day after International Women's Day Ladies!

[Martyshk 137]

They don't need liberating...they can just stroll across the border.

But maybe they were too oppressed to do that, you never know!!!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

This is the problem with today's American men. Can you picture John Wayne sitting near a woman's dressing room waiting for Maureen O'Hara to show him a new skirt? The whole silly TV image of modern men as gullible, easy to manipulate buffoons is becoming reality. Men have become cartoon-like, pathetic figures. And they march off into feminist-land happily.

Relative to this forum, if you suffer the Russian woman as you suffered the American woman, what have you gained?

That's because he had Maureen O'Hara. I bet he would follow Alla into the dressing room.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

If I don't go into the dressing room, she just opens the door and hollers "Bradik! Come to me to see my new clothzezz!". I know if I stray too far it can get a little dicey, so I look for stores with the man chair right near the dressing rooms.

Clothzezz! Luv it.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I consider not being like John Wayne a positive thing. John Wayne (who wasn't ACTUALLY a cowboy btw) was just another Angeleno making a living by wearing makeup and fancy costumes. He was also a racist, believed Native Americans were "selfish" "savages," actively avoided military service in WW2, and oh yeah probably would have spit in your wife's face for having the gall to be Russian. Myths aside, John Wayne was one of the biggest douche bags of his age.

What'chu talkin' 'bout Moxie???? I seen him in like, well, a LOT of cowboy movies, and I know for a fact Winchester was sending him test samples of new repeatin' rifles decades before they was makin' 'em for the rest of us. He had a M1892 in 1880, seen it for my own eyes in "True Grit".

[slim 1,530]

Gotta love the Duke.

[mox 298]

"I believe in white supremacy until blacks are educated to a point of responsibility."

- John Wayne in an interview with Playboy Magazine, May 1 1971.

John Wayne was a racist ####### who hung out with the liberal elites in Hollywood instead of serving his country.

[visaveteran 1]

"I believe in white supremacy until blacks are educated to a point of responsibility."

- John Wayne in an interview with Playboy Magazine, May 1 1971.

John Wayne was a racist ####### who hung out with the liberal elites in Hollywood instead of serving his country.

Yeah, and Robert Byrd belonged to the Klan. That didn't stop people from voting him for who knows how many terms.

I guess he was forgiven. Hmm...now there's a concept. People forgive famous people. Look at sports. Hollywood. Tiger Woods.

[mox 298]

Yeah, and Robert Byrd belonged to the Klan. That didn't stop people from voting him for who knows how many terms.

You won't find me defending Byrd. In the late 90s he did renounce the KKK, but it's unclear to me when in his life he had a true change of heart, and any stand he takes against racism these days seems to be because of political expediency. I know this may come as a surprise to you, since I'm a raging librul and must defend Democrats at all costs, but seriously, #### Robert Byrd.

For what it's worth, Wayne and Byrd share another common shame: both of these able-bodied men avoided military service during WW2, when their country needed them most.

I guess he was forgiven. Hmm...now there's a concept. People forgive famous people. Look at sports. Hollywood. Tiger Woods.

I couldn't give two shakes who "people" forgive. I don't base my opinions on what other people think, do you? Sounds like you've "forgiven" a common racist and malingerer because he hung out with the Hollywood elite making movies. Is that because John Wayne is a right-wing conservative icon, or is it because you've given any thought to this at all and forgive him out of a true sense of human compassion?

[visaveteran 1]

For what it's worth, Wayne and Byrd share another common shame: both of these able-bodied men avoided military service during WW2, when their country needed them most.

I couldn't give two shakes who "people" forgive. I don't base my opinions on what other people think, do you? Sounds like you've "forgiven" a common racist and malingerer because he hung out with the Hollywood elite making movies. Is that because John Wayne is a right-wing conservative icon, or is it because you've given any thought to this at all and forgive him out of a true sense of human compassion?

I see this all the time. A man denies his own shadows by highlighting those of other men...especially great men. Some call it "king killing." Projection. What's your shadow Mox? What do you hide, deny and repress about yourself? If we did our homework, what would we find out about you? Did you ever say something stupid that could come back and haunt you?

The Indians have a wise saying: "Don't judge a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes." John Wayne was a great and highly successful actor. Like most of us, he had his gold and his dark side. But he endured as an actor for decades and he deserves acknowledgment for that.

You can choose to judge and define a man on either his gold or shadow. I see you opt to judge on the shadow. OK. But what does that say about YOUR tolerance?

Edited March 22, 2010 by visaveteran

[mox 298]

I see this all the time. A man denies his own shadows by highlighting those of other men...especially great men. Some call it "king killing." Projection. What's your shadow Mox? What do you hide, deny and repress about yourself? If we did our homework, what would we find out about you? Did you ever say something stupid that could come back and haunt you?

At one time I considered running for political office. Nothing big, just city council in a small town. Decided against it though, since there's ####### that I really didn't want people digging up about me when I was younger. Wasn't anything bad like racism or draft dodging, but definitely stuff I'm not proud of. Like everybody (even those who will tell you otherwise) I have regrets. But I like to think I've learned from those lessons. I don't much like the person I was 20 years ago, but I like who I am now. I've grown and changed for the better. John Wayne did not grow. At 61 years old he was still an unapologetic racist. By some accounts, however, he was an apologetic malingerer, so at least he had a conscience about that. But these facts aren't even a "shadow" or a "skeleton" in his closet, that's right out there for everybody to see. He willingly volunteered the information, and he never retracted it or (to his credit at least) blamed it on being misquoted. I don't see how making some popular movies somehow offsets that. Barbara Streisand is widely acknowledged as a fantastic singer and a damn fine actor...does that offset her extreme left politics in your mind? (it doesn't for me...I can't stand the woman.)

The Indians have a wise saying: "Don't judge a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes." John Wayne was a great and highly successful actor. Like most of us, he had his gold and his dark side. But he endured as an actor for decades and he deserves acknowledgment for that.

Fair enough. John Wayne made some good movies. My favorite is True Grit, although a close second is Rooster Cogburn. The Shootist was a damn fine movie too. Credit where credit is due, the man knew his craft.

You can choose to judge and define a man on either his gold or shadow. I see you opt to judge on the shadow. OK. But what does that say about YOUR tolerance?

Hmm, let's see you put your money where your mouth is then. Your criteria seems to be a balance between the good somebody does and the bad they do. Wayne was a racist and a malingerer, but he was also damn good at his craft and made millions of people happy. Fair enough. So by this criteria, you also forgive Jane Fonda then, right? Like Wayne, she said some pretty awful things and actively worked against the best interests of her country even as she believed (like Wayne) she was doing the right thing. But unlike Wayne, in 1988 she recanted her views. She publicly apologized to all of the veterans and their families and said something to the effect that she is "haunted" by some of the things she said and did. So certainly if you're going to give Wayne the benefit of forgiveness, you're going to give 'ol Hanoi Jane a pass too, right?

Haha, I'm guessing not. Because forgiving Hanoi Jane...well that's just not the right-wing politically correct thing to do is it?

Too much for you? Let's make it easier. How about John Kerry? Dude's a war hero. 3 purple hearts, the Silver Star, and the Bronze Star. Took on one of the most dangerous jobs in Vietnam, commanding swift boats. Certainly that "gold" more than outweighs his crime of being "the most liberal senator in Washington," right? Why, if he showed up at a town hall meeting in your area, the first thing you'd do is stand up and thank him profusely for his service to our country, wouldn't you?

Hmmm. Probably not. For that kind of gratitude maybe instead of putting himself in harm's way, he should have hung out with the Hollywood elite, *pretending* to get shot at.

Critical thinking is a b1tch. It's easy to preach forgiveness when it's a personal hero or someone who shares your beliefs. It's not so easy when they don't share your world view. I used to idolize Wayne like you do, but I got past it. To me, racism is just one of those things I won't tolerate, no matter how many good deeds you perform. If Mother Theresa had said ""I believe in white supremacy until blacks are educated to a point of responsibility," I'd call her despicable as well.

[visaveteran 1]

Give me a fair comparison and I'll respond accordingly. You've named two people, Fonda and Kerry, who were who were allies in the anti-war movement, and whose actions hurt people directly and whose shadows were global in scope. I don't think a few controversial comments in Playboy is comparable.

Regarding Fonda: Source: http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/h/hanoijane.htm

The Fonda trip became unforgettable because it infuriated Americans, especially Americans in uniform, many of whom still regard her as a traitor. She praised the North Vietnamese, posed for a photo at a Communist anti-aircraft gun emplacement, made several radio broadcasts for the Communist North Vietnamese in which she called American military leaders "war criminals," then when some of the POWs returned home and described mistreatment by the North Vietnamese, she said Americans should "...not hail the POWs as heroes, because they are hypocrites and liars." There is no dispute that her visit took place and that her words and actions were in support of the enemy.

In 2005, Fonda published her autobiography in which she described in detail her decision to go to North Vietnam. She said it was primarily motivated by her desire to document the U.S. bombing of important dikes that, if destroyed, could kill tens of thousands of people and devastate the lives of millions. The U.S. had denied the bombings. In the book, Fonda is unapologetic about the trip or her participation in broadcasts on radio Hanoi but regrets the pictures taken of her at the gun emplacement. She said it made it appear as though she was celebrating armaments aimed at American planes, which was not how she felt and was not the context in which the pictures were taken.

Regarding John Kerry view this:

Mox, I'll offer a word for you to consider...magnitude. When you want comparisons, consider the magnitude of their actions. You, again, want to compare apples and oranges.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Tehnically speaking, "The Shootist" and "Rio Bravo" were excellent. "True Grit" is so full of technical faux pas and cliches it is hard to take seriously...OK, it is John Wayne, but still.

Maddy did NOT have a "Colt's Dragoon" it was an 1847 Walker and anyone can see that. Wayne used his own personal M1873 Colt Revolver and M1892 Winchester rifle in nearly all of his movies (westerns) but True Grit and "Rooster Cogburn" are both period set before the rifle was invented by many years.

Other than that, I do not attach any political clout to anything said by any actor. To do so for John Wayne would require I at least consider the same for Sean Penn...isn't happening. "Shut up and ACT" is my feeling. That said, they are entitled to their opinions the same as you and I and that is all it is.

I do, however, remember an interview with Barbara Walters where Wayne stated that though he thought Jane Fonda "had some problems" he stated he was glad we lived in a country where we could all express our opinions. On THAT I will agree.

[slim 1,530]

John Wayne was a racist ####### who hung out with the liberal elites in Hollywood instead of serving his country.

John Wayne was a great man. Bite your tongue, mox!

""I believe in white supremacy until blacks are educated to a point of responsibility,"

How is that a racist statement? Sounds to me like he was advocating education for blacks in order to bring them up to equal footing with their white counterparts.

I do not attach any political clout to anything said by any actor. To do so for John Wayne would require I at least consider the same for Sean Penn...isn't happening. "Shut up and ACT" is my feeling. That said, they are entitled to their opinions the same as you and I and that is all it is.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

John Wayne was a great man. Bite your tongue, mox!

How is that a racist statement? Sounds to me like he was advocating education for blacks in order to bring them up to equal footing with their white counterparts.

Slim

You know that liberals do not generally like education OR responsibility. One leads to the other and both lead to reduced government, not conducive to liberal thinking. Unless liberals control both the eucation and the level of responsibility, they do not care for either. Anyone who thinks black people should be educated and responsible is a "racist" because it would make black people independent. Such people carry M1911s cocked and locked in black (bad) neighborhoods, not in white (good) neighborhoods, and call people racist that point out that education and responsibility are the keys to success in this country.

That said...John Wayne was an actor, not a politician and his opinion is of no more weight than mine or yours.

[Ban Hammer 13,470]

mox and i agree it seems on barbara streisand.