Can my US fiance just be refused time off for emmigrating/helping me move?

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

I knew I'd hear some sense from an English-American couple. Thanks guys!!! I knew someone would understand! I think thats what we're going to do if things don't work out soon. This manager is the only one whos behaved in his way so all this 'welcome to america' stuff is all rubbish. Its her, plain and simple. I think people seem to think the US and the UK are completely different planets but it actually not that different, the people are the same. Some bad apples, some understanding folk... its got nothing to do with the country as a whole. And no we're not confused about dates, but thanks for your input. Anymore helpful & constructive advice is welcomed and appreciated!

You've quite a lot to learn about America, Rachel.

FWIW, it does sound like Russ's boss is a bit of cow.

But you'll manage to sort it all out once you've been in the US a bit. It is quite different.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

I would go to her boss, explain everything that you just explained here. Get authorization from him/her...go over her head. It will tick her off, but what's she going to do about it? She's been trumped.

Make his life a living hell until one of them leaves or is sacked.

[Minya's wife 24]

How many days in total is your fiancee wanting to take off? It sounds like 2 multilple day vacations in the space of about a month is not acceptable. (It is within a span of about 30 days, if you think about it....the 4 days at the end of May, and the [few] days he's wanting to request for your marriage at the end of June.) He's been employed with the company for not yet a year, and he's making two separate vacation requests back to back? Unfortunately, regardless of time accruals and vacation entitlement, it does sound excessive if you take it out of he context of why he's requesting the time.

Unfortunately, the granting of employee time off is rarely a given and if the employee really wants to keep his/her job it is an unfortunate circumstance that must be borne. As you and others have stated, this manager does not seem reasonable....but while she is in charge, she is in a position to make your fiance's work life rather uncomfortable. If keeping his job is a priority, I wouldn't rock the boat about the vacation time to help you fly over. Remember, that once you're married and the AOS process begins, there may be more instances in which your fiance would want to request or time off (like for your medical-exam is you need is, or biometrics, or the interview). If he's gotten on the wrong side of his manager's good graces, she may summarily deny those days off and that would cause further problems.

[Nik+Heather 121]

I would echo JQ's general points. Especially in the sort of job that Russ has taken (You say yourself he's picked something below his abilities so that it could be simple, low responsibility etc) the deal is you show up to work when they tell you, you work, you go home and relax. If you miss the first step, you're hosed. Any paid time off is actually a PERK! Time off really is at the discretion of the manager. It can be highly personality driven, which is unfortunate. As you say, however, it sounds like the job that awful woman (no question that she does sound like a witch!) is holding isn't very stable. Hopefully things will work out better!

Sure in salaried types of jobs the deal is different - typically because the jobs are more about what you can accomplish on a longer time scale and not just "warm body" types of things - There are some weeks where my boss doesn't really care where I am or when, how much overtime I have to work or if I'm gone for 3 hours over lunch -- so long as my report hits his desk on time. Although like the past two weeks there's been a panic where I've worked 60 hours (& no overtime pay), it also means there's more flexibility for negotiations regarding time off and shifting hours.

That's the give and take of the job he's picked, and I think he knows it...I'm sure we are all very sympathetic about your situation - I too hate it when I've been planning something and getting all excited about it and plans have to change, believe me! Maybe if Russ is still having these problems as it gets closer one of your friends or family can travel with you from the UK to ease the trip? I know Nik was glad for his Best Man's company & moral support on the emigration trip.

[yuliaandray 0]

My fiance and I have almost finished going through the K1 visa process which has taken us almost a year. I am from the UK, he is from NJ, US. He works for a large pet retailer, Petco, and recently had a new general manager take over who has treated the whole team, but particuarly him, very badly. Right from the start she has deliberately changed his quantity of hours and schedule at the last minute for no reason, (which she knows doesn't suit him), she once refused to answer her phone to him in an emergency (he was the manger on duty in the store), she reprimands him in front of customers for not carrying out certain tasks that he has never been trained to do, she belittles other staff, she refuses to acknowledge him for work that he's done well, she also refuses to pass on compliments of good work from customers to higher up in the company and generally just makes life extremely difficult for him. He also recently saw her acting suspiciously around the safe one evening recently and when he queried why it wasn't balanced, she looked nervous and he saw her throw in money from her own pocket to make up the balance...

Anyway, he is so miserable there and hates his job so much he is about ready to walk out. He has been looking for another job for weeks already. He also fought very hard to get a letter for K1 to say that they pay him so much salary and so many hours and they have totally gone back on that. Now they just give him minimal hours and obviously not the same salary.

So in preparation for our new life together, it was always planned between us that he would come over to the UK and fly back with me in May when I emmigrate, to help me move and assist me transport my labrador dog over to the US. I am so grateful that he is coming over to help me as I really couldn't do it without him.

At this time, despite working for the company for a year, he is entitled to only 4 paid days off. These are for him to take before his 1 year of service runs out (which is by June 12th). We are then planning to get married during the last week of June, which he has also requested a week of paid time off for - as he will be entitled to 18 paid time off days by then. By the way, he has not taken any time off since he started working for the company last June.

Today he has been told by the manager that she is not prepared to authorise the first set of 4 days off at the end of May, and that he cannot have time off to come to england and must stay in work. She said she will authorise our time off to get married but not the time needed to emmigrate together. She has not given a reason and won't when she is asked repeatedly.

What can my fiance do? His payslip clearly says that he is entitled to this paid time off, but regardless of that, he should be entitled to take it unpaid if necessary in these circumstances. Does anyone have any suggestions? Can he complain to HR? Is this unfair treatment?

Many thanks for your help!

I would agree with those who recommend talking to her manager about the time off. I would also bring up about incident about the safe and money. But be aware that there could be some retaliation on the part of his manager. Some states are no cause states while others arent so she could fire him for no cause depends on state and company policy.

Does Petco have a company Human Resource department?

Here are some links for labor laws

US

http://www.dol.gov

This is a long shot but you might want to check into FMLA on the US department of labor site but Im not sure whether it will cover this. It does cover adoptions and family sickness but who knows.

New Jersey

http://lwd.dol.state.nj.us/

Also, if she is signaling just him out with unfair treatment there may be a violation of EEOC laws and you can find information here. EEOC violations are usually taken pretty seriously by companies.

http://www.eeoc.gov/

[Christi and Ian 24]

I employ people, no contracts.

They can leave at will, I can fire them at will.

Unemployment benefits could impact my insurance rates, I have had so far one legit claim and two that have been otherwise.

It is VERY different to the uk.

To hear some people talk about it, you would think that the U.S. has no labor laws, that discrimination is not only allowed, but encouraged...

All states will have regulatory agencies regarding labor. FEDERAL FMLA law allows you to take time off to deal with family issues. FMLA cannot be trumped by state agencies or an employers "right to work".

FMLA is why a company can't fire you or give you a lower-paying crappy position when you go on maternity leave, or take care of a sick family member, or fly to another country to adopt a child.

I don't know how it would apply to bringing a potential spouse the US, but he does have rights.

A talk with H/R for a few days of FMLA leave could be in order, but what a pain in the #######, when all he has to do is go to his bosses boss and say, "Hey, this has been planned for a while, it's our LIVES, the time IS there, so why not?" If Petco is so desperate for somebody to be there for those 4 days, what are they going to do if he tells them to sod off and gets another job?

MOST people are reasonable. If his manager is not reasonable, it's time to go over her head. She needs to be accountable for her actions. If she tries to retaliate, go to her boss again. Don't put up with being treated like ####### from someone just because they "think" they're untouchable.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

A talk with H/R for a few days of FMLA leave could be in order, but what a pain in the #######, when all he has to do is go to his bosses boss and say, "Hey, this has been planned for a while, it's our LIVES, the time IS there, so why not?" If Petco is so desperate for somebody to be there for those 4 days, what are they going to do if he tells them to sod off and gets another job?

They'll hire somebody else.

Quickly and easily. 10% unemployment in the US, you know.

I know what you are saying about people being 'reasonable'. But 'at will' employment trumps that.

[Christi and Ian 24]

They'll hire somebody else.

Quickly and easily. 10% unemployment in the US, you know.

I know what you are saying about people being 'reasonable'. But 'at will' employment trumps that.

But Federal law trumps state law every single time. States can make their own laws, but only within the guidelines of Federal law.

For instance, in California - Medical Marijuana is legal.

But I see people go to jail for it everyday...

Federal law = Medical marijuana illegal

California - Medical marijuana is legal.

Feds win.

[Danno 1,228]

I sure hope I wont have to be dealing with this. Russ says no one will mess with me, once I give them the 'legal eagle' speech lol! Im known to give employers a hard time if they try messing me about... long story...

This just makes me so mad. They offered him the store manager position as his experience far outweighs the position hes in now. But, he refused because he wanted to do a 'simple job' and just get paid for something with little responsibilty for a change (he has run his own company for 22 years prior).

But this woman just makes my blood boil. The things I hear about her drive me crazy... she has completely humiliated staff in that store in front of customers and just done so many bad things (including the incident with the safe - that my fiance is reporting to HR)... I hope Russ finds another job within the next two months. He only applied for this job to meet the poverty guidlines on paper for K1. He had so many job offers before accepting this one. Its ridiculous how bad they are treating everyone there...

Oh and fyi, she is the third general manager to be employed in the last 6 months haha!

Thanks for listening!

I would suggest from your tone and UK background, when you do get here and look for work..... go for a Government position because in the USA many private companies look at you as an employee, simply a person paid x amount to do x amount.

YOur personal life and all that is often meaningless unless you have a life or death situation.

I have worked jobs where the supervisor was "cool" and would bend for me and other jobs where "it's all business", I show up on time or... they get someone else after one warning.

I am rather glad companies have this freedom, the Gov'ts intrusion into how businesses manage people should be limited to issues of heath and safety.

[SunDrop 59]

FMLA is why a company can't fire you or give you a lower-paying crappy position when you go on maternity leave, or take care of a sick family member, or fly to another country to adopt a child.

If Petco is so desperate for somebody to be there for those 4 days, what are they going to do if he tells them to sod off and gets another job?

Don't put up with being treated like ####### from someone just because they "think" they're untouchable.

There are a number of circumstances that disqualify RussandRachel from calling upon the FMLA, according to this website.

He's not worked long enough, for starters. That, and this situation doesn't fall under the qualifying reasons.

It's not Petco who have the desperate need for staffing, but Russ who has the desperate need for gainful employment. And apparently herewith lies Petco's attitude. They're not worried about losing an employee who wants a lot of time off because there are 100s of people who are willing and able to do his job and not take any time off.

I agree about not putting up with #######, but don't cut your nose off to spite your face in the process...

[Boiler 45,402]

Ditto

[Christi and Ian 24]

There are a number of circumstances that disqualify RussandRachel from calling upon the FMLA, according to this website.

He's not worked long enough, for starters. That, and this situation doesn't fall under the qualifying reasons.

It's not Petco who have the desperate need for staffing, but Russ who has the desperate need for gainful employment. And apparently herewith lies Petco's attitude. They're not worried about losing an employee who wants a lot of time off because there are 100s of people who are willing and able to do his job and not take any time off.

I agree about not putting up with #######, but don't cut your nose off to spite your face in the process...

But it's not Petco so much as it's this particular Manager/Supervisor - and she is has to be held accountable. She doesn't have the final say on whether or not he continues employment. She still has to justify her reasons to the company, and if he goes to her boss with valid reasons, any retaliation by her can be considered just that, retaliation.

And yes, they can hire someone else to cover those 4 days, at the expense of having to retrain an employee and wait for them to get up to speed before they're capable of doing the job he can already do. It's rather more cost-effective for them to keep him and let him have the time off.

But, I understand that reason doesn't always prevail.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

They'll hire somebody else.

Quickly and easily. 10% unemployment in the US, you know.

I know what you are saying about people being 'reasonable'. But 'at will' employment trumps that.

This is, unfortunately, true. How much concession an employer is willing to give an employee is often directly related to that employee's value to the company. That value is a measure of how essential that employee's work is to the continued operation and profitability of the company, and how easy or difficult it would be to replace that employee. Most retail stores have literally hundreds of job applications on file at any given time, and a new employee can usually be trained to fill most positions in a matter of hours. This makes the value of each employee practically zero, from the company's point of view.

Federal and state labor laws can often be used to "rock the boat" in an attempt to get the employer to do something the employee wants them to do, or believes they have a right to ask the employer to do. However, it's incredibly easy for an employer to set an employee up to fail, giving the employer justifiable grounds to fire the employee. Employers don't like trouble makers. Again, how much trouble they are willing to accept from an employee is directly proportional to the value of the employee to the employer. An employee who has a high value to the employer will usually not have to make any trouble because the employer will generally give them what they want.

The bottom line is that if you are employed in an unskilled labor job, then you're not in a position to ask your employer for much. If you ask and they refuse, you don't have much recourse. You can either accept the refusal, walk away from the job, or attempt to rock the boat and hope you don't get fired for it. Being stuck in a low paying job with a tyrannical boss is no fun. The way out of this mess is to improve your job skills so that you can get a job where you are more valuable to your employer.

[Boiler 45,402]

Well put

I am probably considered a softie, UK background, but when shove comes to push so be it. You do not need a reason in my State, but you would never imply anything that might fall into one of the limited exclusions.

[belinda63 3,031]

Well Kentucky is an "employment at will" State. That means either the employer or employee can quit at any time without reason. Although if you are terminated be sure the employer will usually find some reason for the termination so they do not get charged against their unemployment account. But most employers can find some reason to justify the termination.