Howard Dean: Health bill hangs Dem incumbents and Obama out to dry in elections

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Passing the healthcare proposals before Congress will "hang out to dry" every Democratic incumbent running for reelection this fall, Howard Dean said Thursday.

Dean, a physician by training who's a former chairman of the Democratic National Committee (DNC), said that Democrats in Congress -- and President Barack Obama -- would do themselves more harm than good by passing the current healthcare bill.

"The plan, as it comes from the Senate, hangs out every Democrat who's running for office to dry -- including the president, in 2012, because it makes him defend a plan that isn't in effect essentially yet," Dean said during an appearance on the liberal Bill Press Radio Show.

Dean, who has clashed publicly with the White House over the healthcare proposals favored by the administration, said that by passing the bills under consideration, Democrats would essentially be conceding defeat to Republicans.

"It's easy to campaign on repealing something if no one knows what the something is," Dean said. "And fundamentally people don't understand what the president's healthcare plan is."

"And if it passes next week and get's signed into law the week after, we're not going to be able to explain it to people over the din of Fox News and the Republicans," the former Democratic party chairman added.

Dean said that the only solution to correct the bill was to offer a buy-in to Medicare for consumers, which had once been proposed in the Senate, but was ditched by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) as unable to win enough votes to pass.

"The president needs a win here," Dean said.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-roo...ry-in-elections

[luckytxn 2,264]

It will be interesting to see if Pelosi gives everyone their balls back for this but my guess is she won't.

[scandal 951]

"And if it passes next week and get's signed into law the week after, we're not going to be able to explain it to people over the din of Fox News and the Republicans," the former Democratic party chairman added.

Well that's it then. The public agenda of the country will from this point forth be dictated not by our elected representatives in Congress, but by what Fox News has to say about it. Not that I'm surprised of course, it's really rather refreshing to see it out there quite so bluntly. This is the "Let's give up and quit before we even try" strategy. Attaboy, Howard. Roll up your sleeves, get down to work, and Attack!

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Attaboy, Howard. Roll up your sleeves, get down to work, and Attack!

w8-fwsRZLYg

[Pooky 3,787]

Well that's it then. The public agenda of the country will from this point forth be dictated not by our elected representatives in Congress, but by what Fox News has to say about it. Not that I'm surprised of course, it's really rather refreshing to see it out there quite so bluntly. This is the "Let's give up and quit before we even try" strategy. Attaboy, Howard. Roll up your sleeves, get down to work, and Attack!

I don't like Howard Dean. He annoys me, in that he is the American version of Neil Kinnock, the Great Welsh Windbag. But he's right, in the most important sense.

If they pass this mess, the Democrats will royally p*ss off the majority of the American electorate. There is a majority who want healthcare reform. No-one can argue that any more. But there is also a sizeable majority who can see that the "healthcare reform" legislation being voted on is a crock of sh*t. Even stripping out one or two of the pieces of fluff doesn't change the fact that this measure is so seriously flawed that it gets nowhere near moving this country toward substantive healthcare reform. And because it fails in such an epic manner, the Democrats have a real chance of losing BOTH Houses in November, a scenario unthinkable just one year ago.

I will disagree with him that Fox News and the "Republicans" will need to make a din to bring this about - they won't. It will be the candidates themselves and their supporters on the ground who will make the most noise. Scott Brown showed how it should be done and has proven himself in a very short time to be a worthy elected representative. The more candidates like him the local Republican parties can find, the bigger the hurt will be for the Democrats.

I've said it before - the Bill under consideration now is utter carp. The American people deserve better, much better. Good for you, Howard Dean.

[scandal 951]

I don't like Howard Dean. He annoys me, in that he is the American version of Neil Kinnock, the Great Welsh Windbag. But he's right, in the most important sense.

If they pass this mess, the Democrats will royally p*ss off the majority of the American electorate. There is a majority who want healthcare reform. No-one can argue that any more. But there is also a sizeable majority who can see that the "healthcare reform" legislation being voted on is a crock of sh*t. Even stripping out one or two of the pieces of fluff doesn't change the fact that this measure is so seriously flawed that it gets nowhere near moving this country toward substantive healthcare reform. And because it fails in such an epic manner, the Democrats have a real chance of losing BOTH Houses in November, a scenario unthinkable just one year ago.

I will disagree with him that Fox News and the "Republicans" will need to make a din to bring this about - they won't. It will be the candidates themselves and their supporters on the ground who will make the most noise. Scott Brown showed how it should be done and has proven himself in a very short time to be a worthy elected representative. The more candidates like him the local Republican parties can find, the bigger the hurt will be for the Democrats.

I've said it before - the Bill under consideration now is utter carp. The American people deserve better, much better. Good for you, Howard Dean.

So... the conservative Republican is (guardedly) applauding Howard Dean.

And the liberal Democrat thinks he's a #######.

Will wonders never cease

[Pooky 3,787]

So... the conservative Republican is (guardedly) applauding Howard Dean.

And the liberal Democrat thinks he's a #######.

Will wonders never cease

Where on earth did you get the idea that I was a Republican? You're making the same mistake as many other Americans, in seeing things as absolutes, one side or the other, with no middle ground. It's what has contributed to the current divisiveness of the American political system and it will be its undoing.

How many Republicans do you know are fervent single-payer healthcare supporters, support strict gun control, want the American people to realise small cars do the job as well as Hummers and support the expansion of transcontinental public transport?

And how many Democrats do you know advocate maintaining military spending, fiscal conservatism in government, strict border controls and implementation of current immigration policy (applies to Republicans, too).

And those are just a taster for my political views. I'm not easy to please, politically. I will vote for the candidate and party that gets closest to what I believe, because I am well aware that neither party will ever represent everything I believe.

So, still think I'm a Republican? Or a Democrat?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Where on earth did you get the idea that I was a Republican? You're making the same mistake as many other Americans, in seeing things as absolutes, one side or the other, with no middle ground. It's what has contributed to the current divisiveness of the American political system and it will be its undoing.

How many Republicans do you know are fervent single-payer healthcare supporters, support strict gun control, want the American people to realise small cars do the job as well as Hummers and support the expansion of transcontinental public transport?

And how many Democrats do you know advocate maintaining military spending, fiscal conservatism in government, strict border controls and implementation of current immigration policy (applies to Republicans, too).

And those are just a taster for my political views. I'm not easy to please, politically. I will vote for the candidate and party that gets closest to what I believe, because I am well aware that neither party will ever represent everything I believe.

So, still think I'm a Republican? Or a Democrat?

Pooky for President!

[Peikko 1,575]

He's not wrong.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Pooky for President!

But of course, by strict gun control, I hope he means, "Being able to hit your target."

[Peikko 1,575]

But of course, by strict gun control, I hope he means, "Being able to hit your target."

Of course.

He's not wrong with his analysis of the problem with such a polarized adversarial political system, and such a marked inability to see that most people are not ideologues that you can pigeonhole with these stupid labels.

Edited March 5, 2010 by Madame Cleo

[scandal 951]

Where on earth did you get the idea that I was a Republican? You're making the same mistake as many other Americans, in seeing things as absolutes, one side or the other, with no middle ground. It's what has contributed to the current divisiveness of the American political system and it will be its undoing.

How many Republicans do you know are fervent single-payer healthcare supporters, support strict gun control, want the American people to realise small cars do the job as well as Hummers and support the expansion of transcontinental public transport?

And how many Democrats do you know advocate maintaining military spending, fiscal conservatism in government, strict border controls and implementation of current immigration policy (applies to Republicans, too).

And those are just a taster for my political views. I'm not easy to please, politically. I will vote for the candidate and party that gets closest to what I believe, because I am well aware that neither party will ever represent everything I believe.

So, still think I'm a Republican? Or a Democrat?

That's cool. Take it easy. I don't know you, remember? No more than you know me.

Actually, it would seem our politics aren't very far apart at all on the broad issues. The part in bold, which would be your "conservative" stance, applies fairly well to me too. I would say that I'm Scoop-Jackson like in my foreign policy outlook. Regarding fiscal responsibility, I'm supportive of things like Pay-go and presidential line-item veto and - most importantly - tacking entitlement program spending by reigning in benefits (Social Security at age 70, anyone?).

My guess is most Americans, if you can get them quietly in a room, would agree with the many no-nonsense ideas that could make our country stronger and our government more functional. For all the screaming from the hysterics, most of us just want good competent government without party labels.

It would seem our one great point of difference is whether a weak and imperfect health care bill is better than no bill at all. I say yes, you say no. That's no reason to break the china. C'mere, let's have a hug.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

No 1. Is it just me or does the general media (lets exclude Fox here) swing behind the minority in power? I felt the media had a leftest slant during Bush's term and now it feels slightly right?.

No.2 The Democrats need to grow a spine. Seriously. First I think the reason they rushed into the health care legislature was because they had an underlying fear that they were going to lose support in 2010 anyway and wanted to get their system in place. That's pretty defeatist. So now we have this health care bill (bills). They are afraid to use the majority vote because it will make them look bad. (I'll admit they promised to be bipartisan, but the Republicans didn't really come to the table anyway). The fact of the matter is the republicans have used the majority vote in the past so its not like it has no precedent. Besides the republicans have set a record for filibuster attempts right? Democrats use the budget reconciliation.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

No 1. Is it just me or does the general media (lets exclude Fox here) swing behind the minority in power? I felt the media had a leftest slant during Bush's term and now it feels slightly right?.

No.2 The Democrats need to grow a spine. Seriously. First I think the reason they rushed into the health care legislature was because they had an underlying fear that they were going to lose support in 2010 anyway and wanted to get their system in place. That's pretty defeatist. So now we have this health care bill (bills). They are afraid to use the majority vote because it will make them look bad. (I'll admit they promised to be bipartisan, but the Republicans didn't really come to the table anyway). The fact of the matter is the republicans have used the majority vote in the past so its not like it has no precedent. Besides the republicans have set a record for filibuster attempts right? Democrats use the budget reconciliation.

1) I don't see it. The media is beating up both sides - the Dems for failing to grow a pair and the GOP for having lost all their vocabulary except for NO.

2) Yes, they need to grow a spine and a pair. They needed to do that last summer, actually. They need to drive the message, too. I can't figure out how they just surrendered the message war the way they did - wouldn't be surprised if they held the caucus meeting in French now. White flags for all. They've been dicking around way too long and that is the only reason why the bill that I expect them to pass soon is as fcuking weak as it is. If they get their ####### beat in November, they sure deserve it.

And looking back into the nineties, a Democratic President with a GOP Congress might just not the worst thing in the world. If the nineties don't repeat themselves, we'd essentially be having what we're having now - nothing will happen. The Congressional Democrats have severely failed to lead.

Edited March 6, 2010 by Mr. Big Dog