I-129f's HARDSHIP of meeting in person request?

[christeen 966]

Knowing the Laos is one of the most difficult places to obtain a visa from, you would certainly have to first have her apply for and be denied travel visa... I would also contact a lawyer well versed in such matters as Laos is a VERY difficult consulate even without your circumstances...

[Lia792 5]

Hi USA Joe, I'm really sorry you have such a tough situation to deal with and I really wish you and your fiancee the best.

Just echoing or maybe enlarging on what Vanessa&Tony said, from my experience working with hemiplegics, there is a nifty thing called a condom catheter which is not invasive at all, and funnels right into a leg bag. I can understand your physical concerns in that area and I think you should really discuss it with a doctor or physical therapist / occupational therapist to assess the situation. That way they can either help you come up with a solution or write a letter for you that you could use proving that you cannot do it. Personally, I would not send a client that far without a caregiver to assist with their physical needs. It sounds expensive, but personally I can't picture asking the stewardess for help either, and you would probably be much more comfortable having someone to assist you.

Actually, you made me curious so I found this forum: http://www.apparelyzed.com/forums/index.php?showforum=19

Here's a thread about long plane rides: http://www.apparelyzed.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12419

Interesting comments on wheelchair accessible toilets: http://www.apparelyzed.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6058

The USCIS is not known for being particularly caring or helpful, which is why most people here will advise not to try to get that waiver. If you are not pressed for money, I would probably have her apply for a tourist visa to come to the US, or start considering your options for traveling. Once you have used up those options and any other nearby options for both of you to travel to, that's when a waiver would start to be a possibility.

You obviously are a brave and hard-working person as you have flown before, and I think you will have the strength to work through your options.

[Darnell 8,478]

USA Joe - yer gonna have a problem, IMO, proving up the medical hardship.

Most of what I know has already been covered , above.

Suggest you think hard about 'different location' to meet up.

USCIS MIGHT take the stance - 'If money is No Object, then he could have hired his own attendant for the flights, paid for the tickets'

Good Luck !

Edited March 4, 2010 by Darnell

[pushbrk 12,824]

Hi USA Joe, I'm really sorry you have such a tough situation to deal with and I really wish you and your fiancee the best.

Just echoing or maybe enlarging on what Vanessa&Tony said, from my experience working with hemiplegics, there is a nifty thing called a condom catheter which is not invasive at all, and funnels right into a leg bag. I can understand your physical concerns in that area and I think you should really discuss it with a doctor or physical therapist / occupational therapist to assess the situation. That way they can either help you come up with a solution or write a letter for you that you could use proving that you cannot do it. Personally, I would not send a client that far without a caregiver to assist with their physical needs. It sounds expensive, but personally I can't picture asking the stewardess for help either, and you would probably be much more comfortable having someone to assist you.

Actually, you made me curious so I found this forum: http://www.apparelyzed.com/forums/index.php?showforum=19

Here's a thread about long plane rides: http://www.apparelyzed.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12419

Interesting comments on wheelchair accessible toilets: http://www.apparelyzed.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6058

The USCIS is not known for being particularly caring or helpful, which is why most people here will advise not to try to get that waiver. If you are not pressed for money, I would probably have her apply for a tourist visa to come to the US, or start considering your options for traveling. Once you have used up those options and any other nearby options for both of you to travel to, that's when a waiver would start to be a possibility.

You obviously are a brave and hard-working person as you have flown before, and I think you will have the strength to work through your options.

All good advice but for the Laotian fiancee to apply for a visitor visa to the US would be the last thing I would do before asking for the waiver, as it is the least likely solution to succeed. There do seem to be ways to meet, actually several. I would research and pick one. They may be expensive but all the options are going to be expensive anyway.

[NVC FAN :( 18]

I can tell you that if any of the comments posted here were not to your liking, prepare yourself. this journey that you embark on will test you, there will be many things said either on the phone or in the interview stage that will piss you off im sure.

skin better get a little thicker is all im saying

gl

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Joe has several decisions to make, with his disability being at the crux of all of them.

File a visa for a woman he hasn't met face to face? Regular forum readers know this waiver is nigh impossible to maintain. But it still remains an option, as is usually only available to those who cannot fly due to a physical limitation. There will be a line drawn in the grant of a waiver between a true limitation and the preferences of the petitioner. Joe may prefer to travel in this matter because of his personal dignity. That's admirable, but is it a preference or a true limitation? He can file the waiver and find out. It costs him time and money, but it won't cause denial of a second petition if they then find a way to meet and still wish to marry.

As to statements that Joe will find his case put to further scrutiny because of his disability (waiver or not) I call foul. I do believe his case would come to MORE scrutiny if his waiver is successful, but not because of his disability. The bar is set so high for meeting criteria of a bonafide relationship that to add "hired caregiver" to the mix is quite frankly ludicrous. In the case of two persons in a committed relationship, I daresay REAL commitment on the part of the beneficiary to the petitioner would go to the plus side of their column. I do not know how a consular officer can determine bonafides in the case of two persons who have not met face to face.

As to any proof a CO won't put extra weight on the disability, I can offer no more proof than those who say it will matter. But I can offer this case for the overturn of an order of removal wherein the disability of the USC spouse played a large part in that successful appeal.

http://www.uscis.gov/err/H4%20-%20Applicat...008_07H4212.pdf

[john_and_marlene 162]

You can learn much by reading denied BIA appeal decisions:

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/men...RCRD&CH=int

You'll have to search through them for those dealing with the meeting hardship--they aren't sorted by type.

[baron555 934]

Ok. First of all, thank you for responding. Please allow me to clear a few things up. I am the petitioner. It is I, who would have the hardship in traveling to Lao, in order to meet her. She would not be able to come here and meet due to her being an alien.

Trust me, I have flown all across the United States and I have always been without the use of my wheelchair (or any while in-flight). And during my many flights, I do NOT use the bathroom. Luckily none of my flights were ever longer than 4 hours. And yes I use connecting flights whenever possible so I can take a break while we land. As far as connecting flights, there is none from S.F. or L.A. to Thailand (the long flight I am worried about). AND yes I looked into traveling by sea... there's no option in taking a cruise ship to Lao. None.

To address your comment about airplane customers using diapers/catheter, please note these people USE THEM ON A DAILY BASIS. I have never ever used them to relieve myself. I know you aren't intentionally trying to offend me but... seriously, that came across just ignorant. Would you be willing to stick a plastic tube up your peepee hole or wear diapers so easily on a FIRST-TIME request. IF so, please do proceed and let me know how it feels. You know I may be a person with a disability but I do have some sense of dignity.

I hope the USCIS will have a better understanding on that sensitivity nature and not make such an unreasonable demand.

Ahem. Moving on. Requesting assistance from flight attendant could be an option. However, legally, the airline are not obligated to offer assistance ONCE I am inside the airplane. So the airline could refuse my request. Not to mention the possibility of injury to myself or attendance in the process of assisting me to bathroom.

Actually the first thing that come to my mind, if going to the bathroom is the biggest problem, are adult diapers.

The real question is: "Is this relationship worth some discomfort to yourself to obtain?"

You always can have someone else fly along with you to help you with the bathroom problem. Right?

You always can arrange to have her fly to a closer country so you can meet in person, right?

You always can take a long ship voyage where you can get around much easier, right?

So here are three to four very good options for you. No, I would put money down that USCIS does not see your disability as qualifying for the waiver.

[Old Dominion 26]

The OP is already dealing with so much discomfort on a continuing basis, and doing so bravely. He is able to meet his fiance, but is unwilling for some reason to take that extra uncomfortable (undignified) step -- that, unfortunately, would be the position of the USCIS. What else can be said?

[Lia792 5]

Pushbrk,

If I were the OP, I would definitely prefer to know that she would not be able to make the trip because her visa had been denied before I put myself through all that physical discomfort. I bet you have never had an indwelling catheter before because that is what the majority of people on the paraplegic forum I found were suggesting. The OP is facing a very tough issue, which is the possibility of having to travel in an airplane in a possibly physically embarrassing and uncomfortable situation with the possibility of having excrement or urine next to his skin for more than 10 hours which could have quite devastating health effects as well in terms of breakdown of the skin or decubitis ulcers.

Also, if he wants to go for the waiver, others in the other thread posted above stated very clearly that she would have to have at least one US visa denial if not many, and not just for the US, but for Mexico, Canada, and Europe for a waiver even to be an option.

Read more carefully: I said, "If you are not pressed for money." We all know tourist visas are very hard to get in specific countries, actually next to impossible. So it should be obvious that her tourist visa would be most likely denied (If not, I am clearing that up here.) However, since we don't know anything about her, it would be hard to guess whether her visa would be denied, and the answer would most likely depend on her employment and economic status, the so-called "ties to one's country."

[Anh map 2,098]

As I said to Ahn Map, it would be worthwhile to see case-file proof which sets the bar higher for proof of relationship for a disabled USC petitioner than would be required for one not so afflicted.

Is it to be automatically assumed a disabled person is shopping for a caregiver?

Are you or Ahn Map willing to offer us any, or are we simply to believe conjecture?

I can't quote off the cuff where I have read this here on VJ or in Consular Officer blogs on the net. I will look for some of the sources where I drew my conclusion. The various consular officer blogs freely available on the internet are well worth reading.

My message to the OP is/was to prepare for the scrutiny.

As a VJ poster I am offering an opinion. Feel free to disagree.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

I can't quote off the cuff where I have read this here on VJ or in Consular Officer blogs on the net. I will look for some of the sources where I drew my conclusion. The various consular officer blogs freely available on the internet are well worth reading.

My message to the OP is/was to prepare for the scrutiny.

As a VJ poster I am offering an opinion. Feel free to disagree.

Forgive me if I misinterpret, but your post leaves the impression you think me unawares of sources of information. I may be relatively unknown to you and yours, but in and of itself that should not infer ignorance of immigration matters.

Therefore, as a VJ poster, I have also offered my opinion. I hope that will not be problematic.

[pushbrk 12,824]

Forgive me if I misinterpret, but your post leaves the impression you think me unawares of sources of information. I may be relatively unknown to you and yours, but in and of itself that should not infer ignorance of immigration matters.

Therefore, as a VJ poster, I have also offered my opinion. I hope that will not be problematic.

For me, your disagreement is not problematic. It's just disagreement. What I find problematic is your insistence on links to case files to support opinions with which you disagree but do not offer same to support your contrary opinions.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

For me, your disagreement is not problematic. It's just disagreement. What I find problematic is your insistence on links to case files to support opinions with which you disagree but do not offer same to support your contrary opinions.

Ah.

Contrary.

That's an interesting word.

I did put up a link. It's not connected with DOS but it is moderately relevant.

*shrugs*

I just find it hard to believe a Consular Officer would be driving harder to deny the case of a disabled petitioner, especially so far as to run a line of inquiry along the beneficiary being a "hired caregiver". I can see the disability being relevant as to whether or not the beneficiary is so desperate for a greencard as to take advantage of the USC by plying them with professions of a love so great that the disability doesn't matter. Beyond that, I can't see "shopping" for an alien (as it benefits the USC's needs) to be any more relevant to a disabled person as it would be - let's say - a consular officer querying whether or not an aging balding msn might be looking to hire an attractive chinese lady to polish his floors and his glistening dome.

[USA Joe 0]

@ Lia792 - thank you for the links and encouragement. The discussion in your provided links are eye openers since I have never had to go to that extreme "just to go use" the bathroom". Which is why I was initially offended by Vanessa's comments. And OMG the side effects of having those procedures.... can have long lasting health issue. THAT has got to be in my favor of "extreme hardship".

But now I see that its very likely the USCIS and CO will be just as scrutinizing and insensitive.

So I wish to offer my apologies to Vanessa because I replied back so defensive. It's not that I am "unwilling" nor "uncomfortable" to take those suggestion; its more of the ####### factor. Again, thank you for your input.

As pointed out Christeen, Laos is basically the most difficult country to LEAVE. So my fiancee will have absolutely no chance to obtain a travel visa to come here. My fiancee having no real tie to country would for sure deny her travel visa.

And Laos is pretty much as 3rd world country as you can envision. Their modern technology and regulations are still some decade behind ours in some sense. Basically, the ADA law in the USA doesn't apply much to Laos. For example: hotels mostly have squatting toilets. Ewww.

The option of traveling through Europe. Hmmm. Well considering the shortest duration flight from Miami to London is over 8 hours. I would be still stuck in my seat helpless. Unless anyone know of a shorter Trans-Atantaic flight?

I searched on the web for possibility of taking a ship to Asia (China, Thailand, Philippine, etc.) None. Doesn't exist.

Look I am not looking for an easy cop out excuse by slinging my disability card to avoid the Meeting-in-person qualification. Think about it, why would I NOT want to meet my future wife, the last person I want to be with, face to face. Seeing her, touching her is my deepest desire!

I have also consider that if my I-129F is denied by using the Extreme-hardship waiver, I will take that 15+ flight and drag my useless body from my seat to the lavatory. I hope to video tape this and document it as evidence to show the Laos CO how committed I am to obtain my fiancee. I will opt for this before going through the diaper or catheter.

Ugh. If only ALL airplane isles were wider so I can keep my wheelchair during flight.

Thanks again for all your insights and responses.