I-129f's HARDSHIP of meeting in person request?

[USA Joe 0]

Hi. I am so thrilled to come find this forum. Before posting, I did a search for my topic but found none.

In the I-129f's instruction manual, Page 2, Item 5, Point A, it reads "Provide copies of evidence that you and your fiancé(e) have personally met within the last two years; or if you have never met within the last two years, provide a detailed explanation and evidence of the extreme hardship..."

So here's my question: Has anyone have experience (or heard of) using this waiver request? Be it successful or not, please share your details.

Background on my story. I am a paraplegic with absolutely no use of my legs yet I retain full senses. I am able to go to the bathroom by myself and have done so without use from attendant or bio-bags. My hardship would be due to not being able to access the bathroom during the airplane flight to fly to Lao and meet my fiancee. I am without my wheelchair during flying. Wheelchair is stored with baggage beneath airplane. The main flight oversea from S.F. or L.A. to Thailand will be 12-14 hours long. So I am completely helpless. There is no way I can hold my bio movement from occurring during this flight.

Thanks for reading.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

Hi. I am so thrilled to come find this forum. Before posting, I did a search for my topic but found none.

In the I-129f's instruction manual, Page 2, Item 5, Point A, it reads "Provide copies of evidence that you and your fiancé(e) have personally met within the last two years; or if you have never met within the last two years, provide a detailed explanation and evidence of the extreme hardship..."

So here's my question: Has anyone have experience (or heard of) using this waiver request? Be it successful or not, please share your details.

Background on my story. I am a paraplegic with absolutely no use of my legs yet I retain full senses. I am able to go to the bathroom by myself and have done so without use from attendant or bio-bags. My hardship would be due to not being able to access the bathroom during the airplane flight to fly to Lao and meet my fiancee. I am without my wheelchair during flying. Wheelchair is stored with baggage beneath airplane. The main flight oversea from S.F. or L.A. to Thailand will be 12-14 hours long. So I am completely helpless. There is no way I can hold my bio movement from occurring during this flight.

Thanks for reading.

I'm sure there have been some people but unfortunately based strictly on what i'm reading, I don't think your case wouldn't count. Your fiance would need to prove they couldn't come to you. You would need to prove that you couldn't take lets say, take a boat to some joint location with a shorter plane ride or no visa needed (if that's the problem with your fiance coming to you). As inhumane as it sounds, you COULD get a catheter put in for the flight, the airline would have wheelchairs to help you move around. Any time I've been on a plane there have been people in wheelchairs and thy get their wheelchairs when they get out (it's immediately pulled out of the plane and moved to meet the person). I've read of people wearing diapers in case of accidents and going to the bathroom immediately before flight and using the diaper just in case of accidents.

Have you contacted all airlines to see what plane you'd be on? whether you'd be able to get assistance to go to the bathroom (or at least close to the stall)? Why can't your fiance come to you? Money isn't an excuse (in fact looks bad because of being able to support the fiance)... I'm not saying it's a lost cause but you will need to address all this. Whether you email all the airlines that fly there to ask your question and submit their responses as part of the waiver request. Notice from your doctor regarding why a catheter isn't an option (I think there are some kinds of tablets too). You will need to look at any reasons they have to deny it BECAUSE if they reject it, they WILL NOT return your application fee.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but **fingers crossed** you find a way!

**Edit: This might help: http://www.pcurtislaw.com/obtaining-waiver...ing-requirement

Edited March 3, 2010 by Vanessa&Tony

[USA Joe 0]

I'm sure there have been some people but unfortunately based strictly on what i'm reading, I don't think your case wouldn't count. Your fiance would need to prove they couldn't come to you. You would need to prove that you couldn't take lets say, take a boat to some joint location with a shorter plane ride or no visa needed (if that's the problem with your fiance coming to you). As inhumane as it sounds, you COULD get a catheter put in for the flight, the airline would have wheelchairs to help you move around. Any time I've been on a plane there have been people in wheelchairs and thy get their wheelchairs when they get out (it's immediately pulled out of the plane and moved to meet the person). I've read of people wearing diapers in case of accidents and going to the bathroom immediately before flight and using the diaper just in case of accidents.

Have you contacted all airlines to see what plane you'd be on? whether you'd be able to get assistance to go to the bathroom (or at least close to the stall)? Why can't your fiance come to you? Money isn't an excuse (in fact looks bad because of being able to support the fiance)... I'm not saying it's a lost cause but you will need to address all this. Whether you email all the airlines that fly there to ask your question and submit their responses as part of the waiver request. Notice from your doctor regarding why a catheter isn't an option (I think there are some kinds of tablets too). You will need to look at any reasons they have to deny it BECAUSE if they reject it, they WILL NOT return your application fee.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but **fingers crossed** you find a way!

**Edit: This might help: http://www.pcurtislaw.com/obtaining-waiver...ing-requirement

Ok. First of all, thank you for responding. Please allow me to clear a few things up. I am the petitioner. It is I, who would have the hardship in traveling to Lao, in order to meet her. She would not be able to come here and meet due to her being an alien.

Trust me, I have flown all across the United States and I have always been without the use of my wheelchair (or any while in-flight). And during my many flights, I do NOT use the bathroom. Luckily none of my flights were ever longer than 4 hours. And yes I use connecting flights whenever possible so I can take a break while we land. As far as connecting flights, there is none from S.F. or L.A. to Thailand (the long flight I am worried about). AND yes I looked into traveling by sea... there's no option in taking a cruise ship to Lao. None.

To address your comment about airplane customers using diapers/catheter, please note these people USE THEM ON A DAILY BASIS. I have never ever used them to relieve myself. I know you aren't intentionally trying to offend me but... seriously, that came across just ignorant. Would you be willing to stick a plastic tube up your peepee hole or wear diapers so easily on a FIRST-TIME request. IF so, please do proceed and let me know how it feels. You know I may be a person with a disability but I do have some sense of dignity.

I hope the USCIS will have a better understanding on that sensitivity nature and not make such an unreasonable demand.

Ahem. Moving on. Requesting assistance from flight attendant could be an option. However, legally, the airline are not obligated to offer assistance ONCE I am inside the airplane. So the airline could refuse my request. Not to mention the possibility of injury to myself or attendance in the process of assisting me to bathroom.

[Anh map 2,098]

Ok. First of all, thank you for responding. Please allow me to clear a few things up. I am the petitioner. It is I, who would have the hardship in traveling to Lao, in order to meet her. She would not be able to come here and meet due to her being an alien.

Trust me, I have flown all across the United States and I have always been without the use of my wheelchair (or any while in-flight). And during my many flights, I do NOT use the bathroom. Luckily none of my flights were ever longer than 4 hours. And yes I use connecting flights whenever possible so I can take a break while we land. As far as connecting flights, there is none from S.F. or L.A. to Thailand (the long flight I am worried about). AND yes I looked into traveling by sea... there's no option in taking a cruise ship to Lao. None.

To address your comment about airplane customers using diapers/catheter, please note these people USE THEM ON A DAILY BASIS. I have never ever used them to relieve myself. I know you aren't intentionally trying to offend me but... seriously, that came across just ignorant. Would you be willing to stick a plastic tube up your peepee hole or wear diapers so easily on a FIRST-TIME request. IF so, please do proceed and let me know how it feels. You know I may be a person with a disability but I do have some sense of dignity.

I hope the USCIS will have a better understanding on that sensitivity nature and not make such an unreasonable demand.

Ahem. Moving on. Requesting assistance from flight attendant could be an option. However, legally, the airline are not obligated to offer assistance ONCE I am inside the airplane. So the airline could refuse my request. Not to mention the possibility of injury to myself or attendance in the process of assisting me to bathroom.

The onus is on YOU to PROVE that the hardship exists, not cite challenges. So some of the situations that Vanessa mentioned will have to be addressed. This is a tough, tough waiver to obtain.

You will likely need to demonstrate that your fiancee cannot travel to meet you. That doesn't mean just to the US. For example Canada or Mexico where you could travel by car/van/etc. So she would have to apply for and be denied tourist/visitor visas to the US and third countries. Claiming that she (or you) can't afford to make that trip, won't be accepted.

Looking ahead, at the interview phase the CO will want to be convinced that you are petitioning for a spouse/life partner rather than a caregiver. So be prepared to have your life and intentions poked and prodded by the process.

Do some searching for immigration attornies with experience obtaining this type of waiver. Vanessa did give you one link.

Best of luck.

[pushbrk 12,894]

The standard tends to be an insurmountable hardship remaining after all avenues of meeting in person in a third country are exhausted, not simply a hardship one is unwilling to bear. For what it's worth, most of us have had to bear a hardship to get our loved ones to the USA, hardships we decided were worth it, regardless. Your hardship may well be above and beyond but USCIS will use the "cannot" not the "will not" standard in granting such a waiver.

For example, you might consider flying multiple legs through Europe to the Med etc. to avoid long flights. It's expensive and inconvenient but ultimately doable.

When you do meet, plan to stay a while because you will receive intense scrutiny of your relationship. Time together in person is ALWAYS the best evidence of a bona fide relationship.

Edited March 4, 2010 by pushbrk

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Looking ahead, at the interview phase the CO will want to be convinced that you are petitioning for a spouse/life partner rather than a caregiver. So be prepared to have your life and intentions poked and prodded by the process.

This comment strikes me as rather needless and unkind.

Unless you can show us case files which prove it.

[pushbrk 12,894]

This comment strikes me as rather needless and unkind.

Unless you can show us case files which prove it.

I agree with the comment and find that it was delivered considerately. I even virtually echoed it a moment ago. Consular officers are required to consider the totality of circumstances and Laos is a high fraud area. The OP should be prepared for what is to come. Some of it will not be pleasant or welcome.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

I agree with the comment and find that it was delivered considerately. I even virtually echoed it a moment ago. Consular officers are required to consider the totality of circumstances and Laos is a high fraud area. The OP should be prepared for what is to come. Some of it will not be pleasant or welcome.

As I said to Ahn Map, it would be worthwhile to see case-file proof which sets the bar higher for proof of relationship for a disabled USC petitioner than would be required for one not so afflicted.

Is it to be automatically assumed a disabled person is shopping for a caregiver?

Are you or Ahn Map willing to offer us any, or are we simply to believe conjecture?

[Amy and Michael 21]

I don't have any knowledge of this subject but this post reminded me of a recent post (which in addition to a disability faced financial difficulty in order to meet in person).

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...t=0&start=0

Good luck on meeting in person or pursuing the waiver...either way, good luck to you.

[pushbrk 12,894]

As I said to Ahn Map, it would be worthwhile to see case-file proof which sets the bar higher for proof of relationship for a disabled USC petitioner than would be required for one not so afflicted.

Is it to be automatically assumed a disabled person is shopping for a caregiver?

Are you or Ahn Map willing to offer us any, or are we simply to believe conjecture?

If we are limited to offering opinions that must be backed up by case file data, there will be little help here for participants. Do you have a reference to indicate that disabilities are not to be considered as part of the totality of circumstances? I think not.

[Otto 83]

Are you or Ahn Map willing to offer us any, or are we simply to believe conjecture?

Are you willing to offer us any to the contrary? Any tips on going through Laos (disabled or otherwise)?

[LaL 418]

Are you willing to offer us any to the contrary?

That is not really the point, right? If one puts forth that there will be a hurdle to face on the consular level, one would think there is anecdotal evidence to support it rather than just supposing.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

Ok. First of all, thank you for responding. Please allow me to clear a few things up. I am the petitioner. It is I, who would have the hardship in traveling to Lao, in order to meet her. She would not be able to come here and meet due to her being an alien.

Trust me, I have flown all across the United States and I have always been without the use of my wheelchair (or any while in-flight). And during my many flights, I do NOT use the bathroom. Luckily none of my flights were ever longer than 4 hours. And yes I use connecting flights whenever possible so I can take a break while we land. As far as connecting flights, there is none from S.F. or L.A. to Thailand (the long flight I am worried about). AND yes I looked into traveling by sea... there's no option in taking a cruise ship to Lao. None.

To address your comment about airplane customers using diapers/catheter, please note these people USE THEM ON A DAILY BASIS. I have never ever used them to relieve myself. I know you aren't intentionally trying to offend me but... seriously, that came across just ignorant. Would you be willing to stick a plastic tube up your peepee hole or wear diapers so easily on a FIRST-TIME request. IF so, please do proceed and let me know how it feels. You know I may be a person with a disability but I do have some sense of dignity.

I hope the USCIS will have a better understanding on that sensitivity nature and not make such an unreasonable demand.

Ahem. Moving on. Requesting assistance from flight attendant could be an option. However, legally, the airline are not obligated to offer assistance ONCE I am inside the airplane. So the airline could refuse my request. Not to mention the possibility of injury to myself or attendance in the process of assisting me to bathroom.

Is a visitor visa from Laos hard to obtain? Could she get a visa to say, Canada? or Mexico? Or some other country where the flight wouldn't be as long so you can meet her there? Could you take a boat to somewhere close and then a short flight?

The catheter comment ... well unfortunately while I know you don't NEED one, the issue is USCIS doesn't care that it makes you uncomfortable, they care that it's POSSIBLE and as someone else stated, they look at the CAN NOT and not the WILL NOT. It's definitely not fair but unless you have some disorder that means getting one is impossible that's likely a qn they ask. As for would I do it? If it was the ONLY option I had left to spend time with my beloved yes I would. I understand they give you something (in Australia at least) to lessen the feel of it. I have had a tube down my nose and throat down to my stomach... I didn't ENJOY it but it was necessary. As a girl I have pap smears, again don't enjoy it but it's something needed. When giving birth people I don't know will be looking in places I wish they wouldn't... Some forms of birth control are QUITE invasive such as IUD's and rod's in the arm etc... girls aren't permitted "dignity" in a lot of these cases and yet we do it because we have to or because we CHOOSE to for the one we love.

As an example of the "rudeness" of USCIS, during the AOS interview if they choose to test your relationship by separating you and asking you questions (called a Stokes Interview) they will ask questions, including the possibility of "what sexual position do you use most often?", "when was your wife's last menstrual period?", "what birth control (if any) do you use?"... as well as some more mundane questions. They don't really care that it makes you uncomfortable to talk about and/or do...

I truly hope you find a solution but until you have exhausted all options (and have proof of such) they won't approve your waiver...

Edited March 4, 2010 by Vanessa&Tony

[pushbrk 12,894]

That is not really the point, right? If one puts forth that there will be a hurdle to face on the consular level, one would think there is anecdotal evidence to support it rather than just supposing.

Anecdotal evidence often doesn't have links. I assure you that we all are confident about many things about which we will make assertions, to which we cannot provide a URL, so it's really a straw man. Unless there's some reason to believe ANY specific circumstance MUST BE overlooked, we can conclude it WILL BE considered. A reasonable person who puts aside their political correctness for a moment, something Consular Officers clearly do, will come to the same conclusion, IMO. Yes, my experience includes anecdotal evidence regarding the instant circumstance and there's no URL reference for the evidence.

Edited March 4, 2010 by pushbrk

[TracyTN 237]

Is a visitor visa from Laos hard to obtain? Could she get a visa to say, Canada? or Mexico? Or some other country where the flight wouldn't be as long so you can meet her there? Could you take a boat to somewhere close and then a short flight?

This was my question as well. I would assume your fiancee could explain your situation just as you have to us and you might have a much better shot at getting a visitor's visa. Or perhaps meet you in a third location that you could more easily get to.

I would definitely try something like that before I'd spend nearly $500 on a petition with the hardship waiver and hope it is approved. I would do that only as a very last resort.