islamic marriage and recognized

[~PalmTreeGurl~ 154]

Aisha,

Have you ever heard of Leila Ahmed? Shes an Egyptian American professor of Women's Study & Religion. She wrote a book called Women and Gender in Islam. Her views are well known regarding the hijab as well. I dont think VW has peculiar views at all. There's many professors and scholars with those views.

[aisha kandisha 0]

Aisha,

Have you ever heard of Leila Ahmed? Shes an Egyptian American professor of Women's Study & Religion. She wrote a book called Women and Gender in Islam. Her views are well known regarding the hijab as well. I dont think VW has peculiar views at all. There's many professors and scholars with those views.

With the links you have previously had in your signature that called the Prophet, salallahu alaihi wa salam, a pedophile and promoted people leaving Islam, it does not surprise me that you do not find her views peculiar.

Leila Ahmed is a professor; she is not a scholar of Qur'an, hadith or fiqh. What actual scholars do you know who share her views?

[~PalmTreeGurl~ 154]

http://www.mwlusa.org/topics/dress/veil.htm

Heres a link to an article that i find interesting. Its called To Veil or Not to Veil.

[aisha kandisha 0]

http://www.mwlusa.org/topics/dress/veil.htm

Heres a link to an article that i find interesting. Its called To Veil or Not to Veil.

People have opinions on everything. Someone having an opinion doesn't make them a scholar. Someone studying Islam at university doesn't make them a scholar. They may have some knowledge, but Islam has a tradition where knowledge has been passed down from teacher to teacher for centuries and that transmission is documented.

My definition are opinions that cannot be found in any school of jurisprudence. We can probably find an opinion on the internet that says it is fine to eat pork or to have sex outside of marriage. These views would be peculiar by my definition because they are only held by a few stray individuals, have never been held by the schools of jurisprudence or scholars of tradition. If you have 99% of scholars for 1400+ years agreeing on a matter, but you have some people who cannot come close to matching the knowledge of their predecessors yet hold a differing view, I think that view is peculiar.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

All that is just your opinion. Other than that, you've offered nothing.

[morocco4ever 63]

People have opinions on everything. Someone having an opinion doesn't make them a scholar. Someone studying Islam at university doesn't make them a scholar. They may have some knowledge, but Islam has a tradition where knowledge has been passed down from teacher to teacher for centuries and that transmission is documented.

This paragraph really made me think. What really constitutes who is considered a scholar or not?

[UmmSqueakster 54]

People have opinions on everything. Someone having an opinion doesn't make them a scholar. Someone studying Islam at university doesn't make them a scholar. They may have some knowledge, but Islam has a tradition where knowledge has been passed down from teacher to teacher for centuries and that transmission is documented.

My definition are opinions that cannot be found in any school of jurisprudence. We can probably find an opinion on the internet that says it is fine to eat pork or to have sex outside of marriage. These views would be peculiar by my definition because they are only held by a few stray individuals, have never been held by the schools of jurisprudence or scholars of tradition. If you have 99% of scholars for 1400+ years agreeing on a matter, but you have some people who cannot come close to matching the knowledge of their predecessors yet hold a differing view, I think that view is peculiar.

True that.

People can take their religion from whomever they will. If you want to take it from an anonymous person on the internet, well, if that floats your boat, bully for you. Just be prepared to explain yourself to Allah (swt) on the day of judgment (which of course, we all will have to do for all our actions and choices).

[UmmSqueakster 54]

re: the topic at hand, when we were first contemplating the visa process waaay back in the days before VJ even exisited, I read a few do it yourself marriage visa books. Several of them mentioned that it was ok to do a religious ceremony and still apply for a K-1. So that's what we did, after much research of the fiqh of the matter on both our parts (and yes, I did know exactly how my marriage stood in the eyes of the community and in all 4 madhabs + my husband's beloved ibn Hazm and zahari madhab). 7 years later, I still have a husband who loves, honors and respects me. Meh.

[me_4_musa 1]

With the links you have previously had in your signature that called the Prophet, salallahu alaihi wa salam, a pedophile and promoted people leaving Islam, it does not surprise me that you do not find her views peculiar.

Leila Ahmed is a professor; she is not a scholar of Qur'an, hadith or fiqh. What actual scholars do you know who share her views?

[Jenn! 918]

Awww, this is just like the old days. I'm getting all nostalgic and teary-eyed. *Sniff*

[morocco4ever 63]

Awww, this is just like the old days. I'm getting all nostalgic and teary-eyed. *Sniff*

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Debate and discussion are healthy exercises when there is disagreement. But, trying to discredit the messanger's character or credibility without offering a substangive rebuttal is childish. We know that those among us who had a fake marriage then did a K1 don't like hearing that it's wrong, but it would be more beneficial to all if you added to the exchange with more than "Dont listen to her". Take apart my points. Show us how the schools of thought aren't important. Give me something to respond to other than criticism lacking support.

[me_4_musa 1]

Awww, this is just like the old days. I'm getting all nostalgic and teary-eyed. *Sniff*

i had to take a look at the date to make sure i was reading 2010 not 2006!

[UmmSqueakster 54]

This has been discussed several times over the last 4 years. Why go another round? Briefly, the requirements within all 4 madhabs are simple:

1. Offer

2. Acceptance

3. Two sane, male muslim witnesses

4. Publication

In all but the hanafi madhab, the woman should have a wali representing here. The man offers mahr, the woman can accept or refuse it.

Nah, I think I'll just continue to enjoy my fake marriage with my husband who clearly has no respect for me

Edited March 11, 2010 by UmmSqueakster

[zahra 11]

Sofiyya,

The burden of proof is on you to make your argument. I do not claim to be a religious or legal scholar of any kind; I simply rely on the work of those who came before me. The requirements of a valid nikah are well known and understood, and if you want to add another requirement, it is on you to prove that this is in fact a requirement. Because I have no reason to trust your ijtihad on this or any other issue, you need to cite more reliable sources with solid credentials (as was already mentioned, a PhD in Islamic law in itself does not provide religious authority). So why don’t you share your sources with us.

Also, when you say “Show us how the schools of thought aren't important,” what exactly are you referring to? On what “schools” are you basing your opinion (in a way that makes it seem that it is the opinion of that “school”)?

Because you are presenting yourself as the authority in this issue, in a rather authoritarian way, it is your responsibility to make the case that for a nikah to be valid it must be registered with the state. You argue this point as if it is a standard and accepted view, which it is not.

I’m sorry if this is a repeat of a previous thread/argument, but I think the claims made on this issue need to be supported.

Debate and discussion are healthy exercises when there is disagreement. But, trying to discredit the messanger's character or credibility without offering a substangive rebuttal is childish. We know that those among us who had a fake marriage then did a K1 don't like hearing that it's wrong, but it would be more beneficial to all if you added to the exchange with more than "Dont listen to her". Take apart my points. Show us how the schools of thought aren't important. Give me something to respond to other than criticism lacking support.