Rachel Maddow calls it: It is going to happen.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

If you keep lowering the bar to include more people in the American dream, than you just dilute the experience for those that made the effort to achieve on their own. By lowering the bar, you lower the rewards of success, That is not the American dream. That is Progressive mediocrity.

Agreed. Not everyone is supposed to achieve the American dream. That's what makes it the American dream. It's supposed to be something to strive towards. Sometimes, it may even take multiple generations after entry for a family to realize it. The new immigrant lays the foundations, their progeny build on it and so forth. If it's something you can achieve with minimal effort, minimal education and within a few short years of cashiering at Wal Mart, ####### is the point? What kind of lame dream is that?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Not babysit. Just give workers the opportunity for collective bargaining. Thankfully, there are unions like the UFCW (united food and commercial workers union), that have helped people who work in places like your local grocery store, maintain a living wage and benefits like health insurance. Although someone working in grocery isn't going to make it big (unless they get into management), they can afford a comfortable standard of living....and deservedly so.

Is that what happened after WWII when the unions helped build the largest Middle Class in America as well as one of the most prosperous generations?

They did what?

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Not babysit. Just give workers the opportunity for collective bargaining. Thankfully, there are unions like the UFCW (united food and commercial workers union), that have helped people who work in places like your local grocery store, maintain a living wage and benefits like health insurance. Although someone working in grocery isn't going to make it big (unless they get into management), they can afford a comfortable standard of living....and deservedly so.

So much of it is relative though depending on where you live.

Someone making minimum wage can survive just fine in plenty of areas. It's not a prosporous/luxurious life mind you, but it's ok. You can't survive on Federal Minimum wage standards in California mind you because cost of living is through the roof, but in someplace like South Carolina, it's not hard at all. Hell, here in Texas it's pretty easy as well depending on which city you live in.

I'll have to get Vanessa on here to argue with you about the grocery unions. She's had a personal experience with them and they can get quite dirty in how they go about 'getting' what they want.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I'll have to get Vanessa on here to argue with you about the grocery unions. She's had a personal experience with them and they can get quite dirty in how they go about 'getting' what they want.

Unions can be very sleazy. I doubt you need to make the case, just about everyone realizes that.

But then again, so can corporations.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Agreed. Not everyone is supposed to achieve the American dream. That's what makes it the American dream. It's supposed to be something to strive towards. Sometimes, it may even take multiple generations after entry for a family to realize it. The new immigrant lays the foundations, their progeny build on it and so forth. If it's something you can achieve with minimal effort, minimal education and within a few short years of cashiering at Wal Mart, ####### is the point? What kind of lame dream is that?

I agree as long as economic mobility exists within the field of work that you are in. If not, then it's just a pipe dream. It's not really an obtainable goal if the only way to achieve it is to claw and scratch your way to the top, while the rest are screwed. The American Dream means that if you work hard, you'll be rewarded for it.

BTW...this is pretty cool site to see what the pay is for different types of jobs:

glassdoor.com

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I agree as long as economic mobility exists within the field of work that you are in. If not, then it's just a pipe dream. It's not really an obtainable goal if the only way to achieve it is to claw and scratch your way to the top, while the rest are screwed. The American Dream means that if you work hard, you'll be rewarded for it.

Not every field of work is supposed to take you to the American dream. There should be no reasonable expectation that a job which requires no education or little manual effort, and for which the talent pool is humongously large (because the bar for entry is low to non-existent) should ever yield itself to the American dream.

If you want the dream, you have to try harder. Get a marketable degree. Learn to build something not any tom ####### and harry can build. Do something that isn't easy. If everyone else can do it, then you're wasting your time.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I'll have to get Vanessa on here to argue with you about the grocery unions. She's had a personal experience with them and they can get quite dirty in how they go about 'getting' what they want.

I worked under the UFCW, Local 99 for many years before I finally got my degree. Back when my ex and I both worked under the union, we had PPO BC/BS insurance, paid no premiums and had double coverage, so no out-of-pocket costs. On Sundays, we were paid time and a half, holidays, double time. They even provided pensions. All of this for workers that are relatively low-skilled. This was in the state of Arizona...which is worth noting as it is a right to work state. We were not required to join the union.

Edited March 2, 2010 by Galt's gallstones

[Dan J 277]

Not every field of work is supposed to take you to the American dream. There should be no reasonable expectation that a job which requires no education or little manual effort, and for which the talent pool is humongously large (because the bar for entry is low to non-existent) should ever yield itself to the American dream.

If you want the dream, you have to try harder. Get a marketable degree. Learn to build something not any tom ####### and harry can build. Do something that isn't easy. If everyone else can do it, then you're wasting your time.

What does the American Dream really mean anymore?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

What does the American Dream really mean anymore?

Whoa. Now you're getting all philosophical on me

[Obama 2012 1,714]

What does the American Dream really mean anymore?

Viva Las Vegas!

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

What does the American Dream really mean anymore?

If you don't know, then you probably lost it along the way.

[Dan J 277]

If you don't know, then you probably lost it along the way.

Well with the "American Dream" being offered as sort of the ideal life, its good to define what we are talking about. I think the answers to that question will vary widely.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

If you want the dream, you have to try harder. Get a marketable degree. Learn to build something not any tom ####### and harry can build. Do something that isn't easy. If everyone else can do it, then you're wasting your time.

I disagree. For one, getting a marketable degree is not accessible to every American, let alone achievable even if they could go to college. Second, our job market has a high demand for what are considered low-skilled jobs, customer service oriented jobs. And you can't ignore the trade skill jobs like plumber, electrician, that don't require getting a degree.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Well with the "American Dream" being offered as sort of the ideal life, its good to define what we are talking about. I think the answers to that question will vary widely.

I would say it means the opportunity for economic mobility within the field of work you do, as the foundation of the dream. And then the ability to provide for yourself and family, an adequate standard of living (housing, food, clothing, health care).

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I disagree. For one, getting a marketable degree is not accessible to every American, let alone achievable even if they could go to college. Second, our job market has a high demand for what are considered low-skilled jobs, customer service oriented jobs. And you can't ignore the trade skill jobs like plumber, electrician, that don't require getting a degree.

You cherry picked one piece of what I said. Getting a marketable degree is just one way. The key is to do something that isn't easy.

Get a marketable degree. Learn to build something not any tom ####### and harry can build. Do something that isn't easy.