Would it be possible?

[baron555 934]

That was the exact article I was mentioning. Spot-on, Phil!

Thoughts, comments on said article? (Now we're opening up a whole new debate!)

I have a WWII era Remington Model 11 used by USN guards.

I have read and re-read with great interest ####### Culver's articles (over on Jouster) about The Saga of the M-16, The Decline of the Army Squad, and all his USMC Marksmanship stories especially those involving.

Essentially as troops learned working house to house in Europe and in the Pacific jungles, the short barrelled M1 Carbine offered better usage than the longer barrelled M1. (As well as the Germans and the Russians doing the same house to house fighting.) Unfortunately for the US, they never improved the slightly underpowered Carbine round (not that arms' actual intended purpose). What was also learned was that sustained fire (curtain of lead) proved effective in keeping an enemy under cover and liable to attack (assault, thus the "assault rifle" was born). Soon true Marksmanship was not needed, just keep pulling the trigger.

Then by Nam, with everyone equipped with an M16 that could be placed in full auto, the breakdown of the squad came about (in WWII the riflemen protected the BAR, in Nam everyone had a "BAR"). Then following decisions by NATO countries, the .223 round came into being. True it's ballistics show it capable but in reality (as we are learning in Afghanistan and Iraq) it is not the reach out and touch someone round. Early and current troops are bringing their own M1s and others to the front.

To me what this article also indicates is that there still is a great need for true Marksmanship, the ability to keep on target, regularly, at 600 yards plus.

To this end is why you at Appleseed and myself with the CMP are more in need than anyone wants to recognize; their basic missions are still required.

[visaveteran 1]

Before Visa Veteran ran from that other thread you said you were gonna braid my hair...just fair warning. Bring your microscope and tweezers.

Ah, it's Mox's Yes Man, aka Gary.

Ran away? My thread, my power. When it was closed by the mods, it should have stayed closed. But Mox, in his Quixotic way, got it reopened. A few real posts ensued but then the thread got hijacked by kinder-gardeners. Great to have the power to shut them down.

BTW, you and Mox are playing together very nicely. I guess he doesn't consider you a racist anymore.

[mox 298]

Somebody needs a hug!

[Cixelsyd 1]

Before Visa Veteran ran from that other thread you said you were gonna braid my hair...just fair warning. Bring your microscope and tweezers.

Ah, it's Mox's Yes Man, aka Gary.

Ran away? My thread, my power. When it was closed by the mods, it should have stayed closed. But Mox, in his Quixotic way, got it reopened. A few real posts ensued but then the thread got hijacked by kinder-gardeners. Great to have the power to shut them down.

BTW, you and Mox are playing together very nicely. I guess he doesn't consider you a racist anymore.

Everyone here is talking about pistols and rifles.

No need to go down that road in this thread.

[Brad and Vika 129]

Everyone here is talking about pistols and rifles.

No need to go down that road in this thread.

If I plan to present my wife flowers on womens day, on a beach, while watching a Russian movie, and I am armed at the time and we are eating pie, how many points is that?

[visaveteran 1]

If I plan to present my wife flowers on womens day, on a beach, while watching a Russian movie, and I am armed at the time and we are eating pie, how many points is that?

You'd get a lot more points if you carried around a picture of Stalin on Victory Day and carried a Makarov pistol in open carry. If you mention Vermont that's double points.

Add it all up...I don't think the point-o-meter goes that high.

[mox 298]

If I plan to present my wife flowers on womens day, on a beach, while watching a Russian movie, and I am armed at the time and we are eating pie, how many points is that?

Brad you didn't marry your Ukrainian wife in Russia, so ####### spousal abuse on the vv-crazy-o-meter!!!!1!! Now please go start your own thread so you can ask a moderator to close it so you can then drag the poopiness of that closed thread to another thread and then proclaim "mah thredz powah beeyotches cuz Stalin-MLK Day iz teh stoopid!!!"

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Ah, it's Mox's Yes Man, aka Gary.

Ran away? My thread, my power. When it was closed by the mods, it should have stayed closed. But Mox, in his Quixotic way, got it reopened. A few real posts ensued but then the thread got hijacked by kinder-gardeners. Great to have the power to shut them down.

BTW, you and Mox are playing together very nicely. I guess he doesn't consider you a racist anymore.

The world trembles at your power. Declare victory and run away. Time tested. It is how we won the Viet Nam war.

I couldn't care less if Mox is wrong about me being a racist. I never concern myself with what other people are mistaken about.

I do not play nicely... or even play. If I agree with someone, I say so. If I disagree with someone, I say so. Being that I am a libertarian it means I agree with everyone on some things and disagree with evryone on some things. I think you will find several threads on which I agreed with you on some things, and Mox. and many other where I disagreed. I do not paint myself into corners and take untenable stands. I try to leave my options open always and do what is best for me and my family. I really don' care if you or Mox approve. I am a pretty independent guy and my success is entirely my own fault.

The whole idea that you may be "better" because of a visa you chose is ridiculous and really doesn't bear discussion by thinking adults. The entire premise was 3rd grade logic at best, why would you be surprised the hair pulling and food fight broke out?

Brad you didn't marry your Ukrainian wife in Russia, so ####### spousal abuse on the vv-crazy-o-meter!!!!1!! Now please go start your own thread so you can ask a moderator to close it so you can then drag the poopiness of that closed thread to another thread and then proclaim "mah thredz powah beeyotches cuz Stalin-MLK Day iz teh stoopid!!!"

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

You'd get a lot more points if you carried around a picture of Stalin on Victory Day and carried a Makarov pistol in open carry. If you mention Vermont that's double points.

Add it all up...I don't think the point-o-meter goes that high.

Makarovs are so....meh. Get a Tokarev Brad! Stalin was dead before the Makarov came out...the two don't go together at all. Like Rooster Cogburn using a M1911.

[Brad and Vika 129]

You'd get a lot more points if you carried around a picture of Stalin on Victory Day and carried a Makarov pistol in open carry. If you mention Vermont that's double points.

Add it all up...I don't think the point-o-meter goes that high.

I carry his picture everywhere, every day. Your point? And Makarovs are inferior, we all know that - in Vermont too!

[Martyshk 137]

I carry his picture everywhere, every day. Your point? And Makarovs are inferior, we all know that - in Vermont too!

PM - pistolet Makarova, is a standard issue PoS gun for Russian/Ukranian police.... god it's such a sh!tty gun...

On another note.

My grandfather had a TT. Standard issue for officers in the army. Damn that was a cool gun. When I was a kid, I could barely hold i up it was so heavy

Edited March 6, 2010 by Мартышк+Мартышка

[slim 1,525]

I think the government should subsidize his habit and provide him with government .22 ammunition which they buy from the big makers to give price support to the ammunition industry (Oops, sorry, Obama already does that)

See my sig line.

CMP is about as close as we're going to get to govt. subsidizing ammo - and they're a little pricey on .22.

To me what this article also indicates is that there still is a great need for true Marksmanship, the ability to keep on target, regularly, at 600 yards plus.

To this end is why you at Appleseed and myself with the CMP are more in need than anyone wants to recognize; their basic missions are still required.

We've had some limited success "getting our foot in the door" by training a unit of the SC NG before they deployed over to Afghanistan. We're currently working on an event at White Sands Missile Range. I haven't read too much about it yet, but it's looking like we're going to train more of our servicemembers before they deploy to the sandbox again.

I remember when they were just starting the SDM program and they're official list of training needs or whatever it was called was almost identical to what we teach at a weekend event. Simply put, all they needed was Appleseed.

We're making some progress. We have a few military guys involved in our program and the more and more of their buddies they bring to events (and the more and more brass they bring) they're beginning to raise some eyebrows when it comes qualification time. Commanders like guys who can shoot. When some E-3 is outshooting the SDM because he went to an Appleseed, they notice. Then they want the rest of their guys to go too.

We have an awesome opportunity and I'm hoping someday we'll be able to train every single member of the military before they head overseas. It's a wonderful feeling to know that what you've passed on to someone out there on the range has saved American lives downrange.

If I plan to present my wife flowers on womens day, on a beach, while watching a Russian movie, and I am armed at the time and we are eating pie, how many points is that?

It's - 0. Remember the dude saying, "you can't get points, you just don't lose as many." Although I think you can get them back by doing your above actions. Maybe you can never be in the plus category... but hover close to zero with a slightly negative balance.

Stalin was dead before the Makarov came out...the two don't go together at all. Like Rooster Cogburn using a M1911.

Stalin died right after the Makarov came out. And didn't Rooster Cogburn use a 1911 in another movie?

My grandfather had a TT. Standard issue for officers in the army. Damn that was a cool gun. When I was a kid, I could barely hold i up it was so heavy

7.62X25 cuts through Kevlar like a warm knife though butter. Apparently gang bangers still don't know this and prefer other cool gats like Hi-Point 9s.

[Martyshk 137]

7.62X25 cuts through Kevlar like a warm knife though butter. Apparently gang bangers still don't know this and prefer other cool gats like Hi-Point 9s.

Slim, I've never been on the other end of it, so I don't know. But people have been on the other end of my gun hehe, so more power to Glock!

PM still sucks imo. TT ftw

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

PM - pistolet Makarova, is a standard issue PoS gun for Russian/Ukranian police.... god it's such a sh!tty gun...

On another note.

My grandfather had a TT. Standard issue for officers in the army. Damn that was a cool gun. When I was a kid, I could barely hold i up it was so heavy

The TT is the Tokarev I speak of. Chambered for the .30 Tokarev cartridge it i=was th eopposite theroy of our .45. Small bullet, high velocity.

The Makarov is a "value engineered" copy of the German Walther PPK. Admittedly, something was lost in the translation.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

See my sig line.

CMP is about as close as we're going to get to govt. subsidizing ammo - and they're a little pricey on .22.

We've had some limited success "getting our foot in the door" by training a unit of the SC NG before they deployed over to Afghanistan. We're currently working on an event at White Sands Missile Range. I haven't read too much about it yet, but it's looking like we're going to train more of our servicemembers before they deploy to the sandbox again.

I remember when they were just starting the SDM program and they're official list of training needs or whatever it was called was almost identical to what we teach at a weekend event. Simply put, all they needed was Appleseed.

We're making some progress. We have a few military guys involved in our program and the more and more of their buddies they bring to events (and the more and more brass they bring) they're beginning to raise some eyebrows when it comes qualification time. Commanders like guys who can shoot. When some E-3 is outshooting the SDM because he went to an Appleseed, they notice. Then they want the rest of their guys to go too.

We have an awesome opportunity and I'm hoping someday we'll be able to train every single member of the military before they head overseas. It's a wonderful feeling to know that what you've passed on to someone out there on the range has saved American lives downrange.

It's - 0. Remember the dude saying, "you can't get points, you just don't lose as many." Although I think you can get them back by doing your above actions. Maybe you can never be in the plus category... but hover close to zero with a slightly negative balance.

Stalin died right after the Makarov came out. And didn't Rooster Cogburn use a 1911 in another movie?

7.62X25 cuts through Kevlar like a warm knife though butter. Apparently gang bangers still don't know this and prefer other cool gats like Hi-Point 9s.

Corrected. Stalin died before the Makarov was standard issue. It would not be a correct period piece to associate with Father Joe. John Wayne used a M1911, "Rooster Cogburn" did not. However, in "True Grit" stated to be "1880" Rooster Cogburn did use a M1892 Winchester. Oops. In "Rio Bravo" (I think, the film where his grandson is kidnapped) it was set in 1910 and John Waynes son (in the movie and real life) used a M1910 Bergman-Bayard which was the wonderment of all the cowboys in the film.

The movie actaully produced a line which was fairly common...before Dirty Harry came along. John Wayne told his nemisis..."If anything happens to the boy...your fault, my fault, anyones fault...I am going to blow YOUR head off"