I married a woman, not a country

[mox 298]

OK...you put the burden of travel for marriage on them and it took place in a non Russian environment unless you found an Orthodox Church. I see how powerful you all feel about Russian culture and tradition...except when it comes down to who has to give up their traditions for marriage. You denied them their local Russian marriage traditions. Probably to test drive her before you commit. How admirable. How heroic.

My wife married in the Russian way and her family was there. I think this speaks to how far I was willing to go to marry her. No need for the 90 day test drive.

So basically unless we married our wives in her country, we're just lying bastards when we say how much we appreciate her culture?

I've said this before: if it works for you, and you're both happy, then good for you. It doesn't make the rest of us hypocrites.

[Martyshk 137]

Oh, word games.

OK...you put the burden of travel for marriage on them and it took place in a non Russian environment unless you found an Orthodox Church.

You understand that not all "Russians" are Eastern Orthodox, right?

According to you, I, a secular jew, should go marry my fiancee (who doesn't give a ####### about any religion at all) in an Orthodox church?

I think you are completely off the point there.

Russia is comprised of lots of nationalities, just like U.S. This is a very bad example

[VisaJourneyLady 33]

There is a world wide tradition, and what I see as almost a natural law, that women follow men. Wives follow husbands. There are exceptions in this age of pro-feminist men, but what is nature's "original instruction" is the woman follows the man. The man hunts the food, the woman follows the food.

I assume you are referring to hunter/gatherer societies here. Your depiction of them is inaccurate. In hunter/gatherer societies the women provide a huge percentage of the overall calories consumed by the community. They did not 'follow the man' in any way.

[visaveteran 1]

So basically unless we married our wives in her country, we're just lying bastards when we say how much we appreciate her culture?

I've said this before: if it works for you, and you're both happy, then good for you. It doesn't make the rest of us hypocrites.

No...but you put all the risk on the woman. She walks away from job, family and home...and you're holding a coupon that gives you a lot of power over her life...you can say no and send her home...back to all that wonderful Russian culture I hear so much about.

[visaveteran 1]

You understand that not all "Russians" are Eastern Orthodox, right?

According to you, I, a secular jew, should go marry my fiancee (who doesn't give a ####### about any religion at all) in an Orthodox church?

I think you are completely off the point there.

Russia is comprised of lots of nationalities, just like U.S. This is a very bad example

Yes, you're right...many are atheists and some Muslim. If you're a Jew, I can understand why you left Russia...as so many Jews have done. Russia is not very kind to Jews.

[Martyshk 137]

Yes, you're right...many are atheists and some Muslim. If you're a Jew, I can understand why you left Russia...as so many Jews have done. Russia is not very kind to Jews.

Look at that sh!t, we finally agree on something.

Except it was Ukraine (I know most think it's the same, but it's not)

[AKguy 1]

we finally agree on something.

Reported for agreeing.

[mox 298]

No...but you put all the risk on the woman. She walks away from job, family and home...and you're holding a coupon that gives you a lot of power over her life...you can say no and send her home...back to all that wonderful Russian culture I hear so much about.

How are you putting any less risk on your wife than I am on mine? You too can send her home at any time. Plus you have the advantage of having been married in Russia, which means you can stick her on an airplane one day, and you're a single unmarried man the next. Nobody's ever going to check if you have a marriage certificate in Russia, so unless you're bound and determined to go Russian again, you're pretty much free and clear.

No matter how you go about it, if she's moving to the US then she's putting almost unlimited trust into your hands. She probably quit her job, if she was renting a flat then she probably gave that up, said goodbyes to friends, etc. It's not like she can go home and just pick up her life where she left off, and it doesn't matter if she said her vows in Russia or the US.

I say again: if your relationship works for you and your wife, good for you. But your assertion that anybody who didn't do it your way is somehow a hypocrite is ludicrous.

[Martyshk 137]

Reported for agreeing.

Reported for reporting

[mox 298]

Reported for agreeing.

Reported to Slim for making the moderators notice.

[StillThePrettiest 3]

and what the hell difference does it make where you were married anyway? I would have LOVED to have been married in Australia, not from any cultural reasons, but because it would have meant my 90 year old grandmother could have been at the ceremony... but to go that route would have meant a K-3, with me waiting in Australia or back in the UK while my husband returned to America without me

the choice of wedding location with international couples is more often than not determined by the situation, and has NOTHING to do with any opinions, on either side, of either of the cultures

VisaVeteran, you speak more hogwash than most people around here, and THAT is saying something

[visaveteran 1]

How are you putting any less risk on your wife than I am on mine? You too can send her home at any time. Plus you have the advantage of having been married in Russia, which means you can stick her on an airplane one day, and you're a single unmarried man the next. Nobody's ever going to check if you have a marriage certificate in Russia, so unless you're bound and determined to go Russian again, you're pretty much free and clear.

No matter how you go about it, if she's moving to the US then she's putting almost unlimited trust into your hands. She probably quit her job, if she was renting a flat then she probably gave that up, said goodbyes to friends, etc. It's not like she can go home and just pick up her life where she left off, and it doesn't matter if she said her vows in Russia or the US.

I say again: if your relationship works for you and your wife, good for you. But your assertion that anybody who didn't do it your way is somehow a hypocrite is ludicrous.

Oh, you want to make this a legalistic conversation. Good diversion.

My intention was to illustrate who walks the "I love the Russian culture" talk. Or to reply to all the men out there that buy their wife flowers on IWD and want extra points...but got married in the USA with a money back guarantee.

But I'll play your silly game.... my wife has some leverage to stay in the US with her immediate green card and my commitment to support her legally. And she has seen I walked my talk and married her. No 90 day test drive. Her odds are better

And, Mox, my wife has a military ID and is locked in as my dependent. Not so easy to just walk away. Life is never so simple.

[mox 298]

My intention was to illustrate who walks the "I love the Russian culture" talk. Or to reply to all the men out there that buy their wife flowers on IWD and want extra points...but got married in the USA with a money back guarantee.

And I ask again: how does where we married make any difference with regards to this point? How did your marrying in Russia make your "money back guarantee" any different than my "money back guarantee?"

But I'll play your silly game.... my wife has some leverage to stay in the US with her immediate green card and my commitment to support her legally. And she has seen I walked my talk and married her. No 90 day test drive. Her odds are better

And so does mine. And so does Slim's. And so does Gary's. And so does pretty much everyone else.

And, Mox, my wife has a military ID and is locked in as my dependent. Not so easy to just walk away. Life is never so simple.

Exactly like if you'd married her in the US.

[visaveteran 1]

And I ask again: how does where we married make any difference with regards to this point? How did your marrying in Russia make your "money back guarantee" any different than my "money back guarantee?"

And so does mine. And so does Slim's. And so does Gary's. And so does pretty much everyone else.

Exactly like if you'd married her in the US.

You forget one thing...you had 90 days to bail and ruin your fiancee's life...I did not. Your money back guarantee is the 90 days. I had no such escape route.

Your wife had to wait 1 year for a green card. Mine did not. So...you could decide to bail on the green card at the one year point through the AOS process forcing her to go back to Russia.

Anyone can get divorced...and a woman in Russia can't do much against the US legal system.

[SMR 368]

There is a world wide tradition, and what I see as almost a natural law, that women follow men. Wives follow husbands. There are exceptions in this age of pro-feminist men, but what is nature's "original instruction" is the woman follows the man. The man hunts the food, the woman follows the food.

In my marriage, my wife and I are in total congruity around this natural way of things. My wife followed me to America. I didn't pay extra to get lousy Russian broadcasts on the cable. I don't celebrate Russian holidays. I don't try to learn Russian. Part of the congruity between my wife and me is she is not happy with Russian life. She is a strong Russian critic. She knows for most folks it is a hard life to be in Russia.

My wife is musical and does sing Russian songs because that's all she knows...so I enjoy the music and where it came from is not important. The music itself is important. No meet to label it. I am not building a stone wall to keep out all things Russian, but I don't encourage anything we'd must label "Russian."

Because of the "total immersion" into American life, I judge my wife's adjustment has gone swiftly and she has let go of many things. Is it more cruel to ask her to do this, or to keep reminding her about her homeland and stir up nostalgia and sadness with what is gone.

I understand the honeymoon period, especially for you men waiting for fiancee visas. Maybe I went to Russia too many times to think of it as an adventure, and the honeymoon may be stronger and longer for younger men and women. I've been all over the world and I've come to hate travel. I certainly would put Russia far down my list of great adventures and memories beyond marriage.

What's ironic in this discussion is that I am one of a very few men who actually got married in Russia. So, isn't that interesting. All you Russia loving dudes force your women to come to YOU for marriage. You love all that Russian stuff, but you have your limits...right?

A lot of what you say is reasonable and makes some sense. The thing that is really ridiculous to me is the way you really fail to see the world from the other side. Now, I can't prove that you don't see it, but that is how it seems to me. That is, you seem to fail to understand that Russia is a diverse country with a rich history, many good people, and a lot to be proud of. Furthermore, people born in the US aren't inherently better than people born in Russia, even if the Russian doesn't want to give up his or her Russian way of life.

I met and courted my wife in Russia. We were married in the US, but it was 6 days after entry. That is about as fast as it gets, when you consider waiting periods on a marriage license in the state where I lived at the time. It had nothing to do with a trial period. We weren't married in an Orthodox Church, which makes sense since we are of the same religion and it isn't Orthodox. I am perfectly open to the idea of returning to Russia and we will probably do so in a couple years.

The point is, neither Russia nor America is better than the other. Both have great culture, traditions, history, and ideas. One can argue about government or philosophy, but the reality is that people do the best they can. And it doesn't matter where a person was born, or what language they were taught to speak. To suggest otherwise is un-American.

When you go about suggesting that in an international marriage, the Russian should leave behind all tradition and culture and assimilate into America, without expecting the reverse in any degree, or when you imply that Russian veterans are less honorable, or when you talk about how someone who appreciates another culture is turning their back on their roots, you have failed to see that Russians and Americans are equal, that deep down inside, they both have much of the same sensitivities, aspirations, emotions, and drive. It's almost as if you see Russians as barbarians, in the Roman sense of the word, as people that were born in an inferior state that need to be shown the light of higher living. That is what really disturbs me.