I married a woman, not a country

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

You forget one thing...you had 90 days to bail and ruin your fiancee's life...I did not. Your money back guarantee is the 90 days. I had no such escape route.

Your wife had to wait 1 year for a green card. Mine did not. So...you could decide to bail on the green card at the one year point through the AOS process forcing her to go back to Russia.

Anyone can get divorced...and a woman in Russia can't do much against the US legal system.

Oh ####### off! ( I heard that from a Limey) My wife had her green card in hand in less than 4 months. Her drivers license in two months. ####### are you talking about? Your wife waited for her green card also...in Russia. The CR-1 is no different, except where you wait while processed. You got married in Russia and file for the green card after you were married. I got married in the USA and filed for the green card in the USA. ####### is the difference? Your wife waited in Russia while you were in the USA, during that period she was your wife and had no green card, PLUS had no benefits of living here, no driver's license, car, relaible hot water, yada, yada.

My wife got her SSN on day two after arriving (she had the "employment authorized" stamp back when it meant something, right away on entry. She could have worked on day one but didn;t need to because her husband makes plenty to support her) she was married 8 days later and her her green card less than four months after we said "I do". How long did you FORCE your wife to wait after you said "I do" to get her green card? what a dumb@ss. In the meantime, you FORCED her to wait in Russia. My wife was in college in the USA and learning to drive. She was IN college in the USA before we got married. She had her driver's license in less than two months after saying "I do" How long did you FORCE your wife to wait after saying "I do" to get a drivers license?

Your wife waited longer in a less advantageous society than mine did and now you try to make out that you are something special. What a dufus.

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

And limeys durr!

Mart...they are the same. They both have the same Queen on their money.

Reported for mentioning Canadians (it draws them here) Doh! I said Canadians. Doh!

Quebecois!!!!!! (There, that ought to scare them off)

[SMR 368]

You forget one thing...you had 90 days to bail and ruin your fiancee's life...I did not. Your money back guarantee is the 90 days. I had no such escape route.

Your wife had to wait 1 year for a green card. Mine did not. So...you could decide to bail on the green card at the one year point through the AOS process forcing her to go back to Russia.

Anyone can get divorced...and a woman in Russia can't do much against the US legal system.

It seems to me that you are the only person in this discussion who really saw or sees the 90 days as a "money-back guarantee." (I find it odd that you see it as money back since no money would have been returned).

In reality, divorcing or annulling the marriage is not much more complicated than refusing to marry after a short time. Yeah, your wife may have had more of a basis to stay had you divorced her, but I think I don't speak for only my self when I say that my wife wasn't after the green card. She gave up a lot to come here; you are right. But without me, she really wouldn't have come and if I were to die, she would probably return to Russia, in spite of the fact that she could legally stay.

When you talk about a "money back guarantee," I think I see what you mean. Most of us here decided to get married and used a visa process so we could live in the same country as our eventual spouse. You bought a wife by getting her a green card. That's really what you mean by money; you mean green card. And when you say 90 day money back guarantee, you mean there were 90 days when we could decide we didn't want the wife and could take the green card back. But I think you are the only one here who thinks of it as buying a wife with a green card. The reality is, my wife wanted to marry me and accepted the green card so it would work. Your wife, it seems, at least as you see it, wanted to be an American, so she accepted you to get the green card.

[Martyshk 137]

I just have to say, what the F-ing difference does it make what visa and what circumstances brought two people who love and care for each other together?

I could give two sh!ts about how it happens for us, as long as it's as fast as possible.

End of argument..

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

It seems to me that you are the only person in this discussion who really saw or sees the 90 days as a "money-back guarantee." (I find it odd that you see it as money back since no money would have been returned).

In reality, divorcing or annulling the marriage is not much more complicated than refusing to marry after a short time. Yeah, your wife may have had more of a basis to stay had you divorced her, but I think I don't speak for only my self when I say that my wife wasn't after the green card. She gave up a lot to come here; you are right. But without me, she really wouldn't have come and if I were to die, she would probably return to Russia, in spite of the fact that she could legally stay.

When you talk about a "money back guarantee," I think I see what you mean. Most of us here decided to get married and used a visa process so we could live in the same country as our eventual spouse. You bought a wife by getting her a green card. That's really what you mean by money; you mean green card. And when you say 90 day money back guarantee, you mean there were 90 days when we could decide we didn't want the wife and could take the green card back. But I think you are the only one here who thinks of it as buying a wife with a green card. The reality is, my wife wanted to marry me and accepted the green card so it would work. Your wife, it seems, at least as you see it, wanted to be an American, so she accepted you to get the green card.

SMR...

His argument makes NO sense. ALL of our wives got a green card AFTER they married us. His wife, my wife, your wife. NO ONE got a green card before marriage. We all had equal opportunity to ruin our wives lives (and still do). Trying to split hairs over where the couple was standing when the vows were taken is BS. He married his wife in Russia, then abandoned her and FORCED to live there while she waited for her green card. Too bad for her if he took many months (or years) to file a petition. She was married and stuck with having to get a divorce if he didn't do as he said. I will bet you $100 she waited LONGER after the marriage for her green card than my wife did. My wife had her green card in her hand 3 months and 4 days after she said "I do". How long did VV's wife wait after the wedding?

VV, what is the answer?

My wife could have gotten back on the plane and left when she arrived. No divorce necessary. SHE could have tried things out and changed her mind. She could have waited 90 days, but we didn't. The "guarantee" was available to both of us. To suggest my wife could NOT have gotten back on the plane and returned all on her own is an insult. maybe VV's wife is so dependent as to be unable to do so, my wife is not. She has never been without enough CASH to buy multiple plane tickets back to Ukraine at any time. She could drive her own car to JFK today and get on the next plane to Kiev, pay cash from what she has stashed around the house and she would be winging her way back before I noticed she was gone. To suggest otherwise is ludicrous...or perhaps a reflection of how VV restrains his wife. Mine is not restrained in any way.

On the other hand, after abandoning his wife in Russia (what kind of MAN does that?) he then FORCED her to come to a country she had never seen and FORCED her to live with him, if she didn't like it, she would have to get a divorce

If I want to paint a negative picture of the CR-1 visa, I certainly can. Why would I do that? I presume that VV and his wife are adults and make decisions as adults. They made a decision of what was best for them. We made a decision of what was best for us. What the #### is the problem with that??????

[slim 1,533]

Reported to Slim for making the moderators notice.

Now you've got it! We're part of the solution, remember?

You forget one thing...you had 90 days to bail and ruin your fiancee's life...I did not. Your money back guarantee is the 90 days. I had no such escape route.

Your wife had to wait 1 year for a green card. Mine did not. So...you could decide to bail on the green card at the one year point through the AOS process forcing her to go back to Russia.

Anyone can get divorced...and a woman in Russia can't do much against the US legal system.

How about another angle on this -

As a young guy working a blue-collar job and living check-to-check, instead of a money back guarantee I had more of a cash on delivery that was non-refundable. It's not like she showed up here with a fistful of dollars and started paying for everything right away. In fact, it took quite a while before she could work and contribute anything. Now that she is working, the contributing part is still not something that's even remotely close to refunding my deposit so, as we sit here, three and a half years after her arrival, I'm still paying for the whole deal.

It's more like she could bail on me at anytime. "Now that I've been here a while and got my sh!t together, I'm out of here. Thanks for the last few years, sucker."

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

Now you've got it! We're part of the solution, remember?

How about another angle on this -

As a young guy working a blue-collar job and living check-to-check, instead of a money back guarantee I had more of a cash on delivery that was non-refundable. It's not like she showed up here with a fistful of dollars and started paying for everything right away. In fact, it took quite a while before she could work and contribute anything. Now that she is working, the contributing part is still not something that's even remotely close to refunding my deposit so, as we sit here, three and a half years after her arrival, I'm still paying for the whole deal.

It's more like she could bail on me at anytime. "Now that I've been here a while and got my sh!t together, I'm out of here. Thanks for the last few years, sucker."

No way Slim. Must be a trick. How did a young guy ever get an FSU woman? I always wondered about the poor FSU men that had to wait until they were like 40 years old to get a girlfriend, what do they do? No wonder so many are drunk. Maybe they aren't really drunk, but just crazy from wanking it!

I still question the existance of your wife...you simply do not fit the mold.

[SMR 368]

No way Slim. Must be a trick. How did a young guy ever get an FSU woman? I always wondered about the poor FSU men that had to wait until they were like 40 years old to get a girlfriend, what do they do? No wonder so many are drunk. Maybe they aren't really drunk, but just crazy from wanking it!

I still question the existance of your wife...you simply do not fit the mold.

I'm 23 and I'll tell you that if a FSU guy has his stuff together, he could have 3 girlfriends simultaneously at a young age. No reason to wait until he is 40. There is just that many more women who have there stuff together than men who have their stuff together. Again, I'm not saying there aren't men who have their stuff together. There are just twice as many women.

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

I'm 23 and I'll tell you that if a FSU guy has his stuff together, he could have 3 girlfriends simultaneously at a young age. No reason to wait until he is 40. There is just that many more women who have there stuff together than men who have their stuff together. Again, I'm not saying there aren't men who have their stuff together. There are just twice as many women.

Well, OK but they would be those young ones. Shiver.

(I said it with my tongue firmly in my cheek)

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

I'm 23 and I'll tell you that if a FSU guy has his stuff together, he could have 3 girlfriends simultaneously at a young age. No reason to wait until he is 40. There is just that many more women who have there stuff together than men who have their stuff together. Again, I'm not saying there aren't men who have their stuff together. There are just twice as many women.

Seems that way. Actually, there are, officially, 116 women for every 100 men. Hardly "twice as many" and the odds for us old guys are better as the gap increases with age, At age 20 it is nearly 1 to 1. At age 65 it is about 7 women to one man, but that is because the men croak off at age 58 and the women live to age 79 (average)

The problem (if you call it that) is that alcoholism is so rampant that half the men take themselves off the market in favor of vodka. (I know...crazy) and the women really are not attracted to drunks (imagine that) so they increase the odds by default for an average guy who has a job and doesn't spend his whole life intoxicated (and die at age 58) It has also been explained to me, it is why most Ukrainian women prefer older men...if they are not drunks at age 40 or so, they are not likely to be in the future. "20 something" Ukrainian men are way too much of a wild card for a woman that is interested in her family future.

Another factor is the very strong desire and culture for women to get married and have families. While in the US maybe only 60% of the 20 something women are even looking for a husband an 22 year old unmarried Ukrainian woman is something of an oddity (less so now than a few years ago, but they are all definitely "on the market")

So at any age, the "real numbers" are skewed by the reality of culture and men's bad habits, much to our favor.

At that Ukraine still has the largest dicrepancie of men/women in any civilized country...that is true. Russia is close behind. It is still, largely the devastation of WW2 that causes this, it has taken several generations to get anywhere near back to normal.

[SMR 368]

Seems that way. Actually, there are, officially, 116 women for every 100 men. Hardly "twice as many" and the odds for us old guys are better as the gap increases with age, At age 20 it is nearly 1 to 1. At age 65 it is about 7 women to one man, but that is because the men croak off at age 58 and the women live to age 79 (average)

The problem (if you call it that) is that alcoholism is so rampant that half the men take themselves off the market in favor of vodka. (I know...crazy) and the women really are not attracted to drunks (imagine that) so they increase the odds by default for an average guy who has a job and doesn't spend his whole life intoxicated (and die at age 58) It has also been explained to me, it is why most Ukrainian women prefer older men...if they are not drunks at age 40 or so, they are not likely to be in the future. "20 something" Ukrainian men are way too much of a wild card for a woman that is interested in her family future.

Another factor is the very strong desire and culture for women to get married and have families. While in the US maybe only 60% of the 20 something women are even looking for a husband an 22 year old unmarried Ukrainian woman is something of an oddity (less so now than a few years ago, but they are all definitely "on the market")

So at any age, the "real numbers" are skewed by the reality of culture and men's bad habits, much to our favor.

At that Ukraine still has the largest dicrepancie of men/women in any civilized country...that is true. Russia is close behind. It is still, largely the devastation of WW2 that causes this, it has taken several generations to get anywhere near back to normal.

We could go on for a while about the societal problems in Russia and Ukraine. I agree with what you are saying here. I was talking about a guy who has his stuff together, meaning he has a job and doesn't drink. That's why it's 2 to 1, as you pointed out.

However, I don't think WW2 can be directly blamed for the shortage of men. After all, men who died in WW2 would be 80+ now anyways. The problem is, too many men grew up without fathers to show them how to be men. In any community where boys grow up without fathers, there is a large amount of delinquency in the up and coming generation, particularly among young men.

[eekee 182]

VV, your post about the Dominican Republic reveals more about your relationship than any spectacular Russian Orthodox wedding in Russia ever could.

"Money back guarantee"? These are women, not appliances from Sears.

Lastly, you may have married a woman, but she spent 20, 30, 40 years in another country, and unless you erase her memory, these will affect her and how she acts in daily life. Cross-cultural relationships are challenging. Both sides have to understand the other.

[clueless_in_usa 8]

SMR...

His argument makes NO sense. ALL of our wives got a green card AFTER they married us. His wife, my wife, your wife. NO ONE got a green card before marriage. We all had equal opportunity to ruin our wives lives (and still do). Trying to split hairs over where the couple was standing when the vows were taken is BS. He married his wife in Russia, then abandoned her and FORCED to live there while she waited for her green card. Too bad for her if he took many months (or years) to file a petition. She was married and stuck with having to get a divorce if he didn't do as he said. I will bet you $100 she waited LONGER after the marriage for her green card than my wife did. My wife had her green card in her hand 3 months and 4 days after she said "I do". How long did VV's wife wait after the wedding?

VV, what is the answer?

My wife could have gotten back on the plane and left when she arrived. No divorce necessary. SHE could have tried things out and changed her mind. She could have waited 90 days, but we didn't. The "guarantee" was available to both of us. To suggest my wife could NOT have gotten back on the plane and returned all on her own is an insult. maybe VV's wife is so dependent as to be unable to do so, my wife is not. She has never been without enough CASH to buy multiple plane tickets back to Ukraine at any time. She could drive her own car to JFK today and get on the next plane to Kiev, pay cash from what she has stashed around the house and she would be winging her way back before I noticed she was gone. To suggest otherwise is ludicrous...or perhaps a reflection of how VV restrains his wife. Mine is not restrained in any way.

On the other hand, after abandoning his wife in Russia (what kind of MAN does that?) he then FORCED her to come to a country she had never seen and FORCED her to live with him, if she didn't like it, she would have to get a divorce

If I want to paint a negative picture of the CR-1 visa, I certainly can. Why would I do that? I presume that VV and his wife are adults and make decisions as adults. They made a decision of what was best for them. We made a decision of what was best for us. What the #### is the problem with that??????

If she wants to do that, tell her to buy a roundtrip ticket instead and try to pay with a Credit Card (oh! I forgot you don't believe in Credit Cards). Buying a one way ticket with Cash will flag her as a terrorist. May not be able to fly.

[eekee 182]

I don't really think that's something Alla needs to worry about. I may not agree with Gary on many issues, but I think there are very few women in this world who have less incentive to leave her husband than she does.

[clueless_in_usa 8]

Oh, word games.

OK...you put the burden of travel for marriage on them and it took place in a non Russian environment unless you found an Orthodox Church. I see how powerful you all feel about Russian culture and tradition...except when it comes down to who has to give up their traditions for marriage. You denied them their local Russian marriage traditions. Probably to test drive her before you commit. How admirable. How heroic.

My wife married in the Russian way and her family was there. I think this speaks to how far I was willing to go to marry her. No need for the 90 day test drive.

Actually, VV, it was MY WIFE who wanted to Test-Drive me before she married me and committed herself to this little thing called family. We married after 60 days and she was still hesitant to do it so soon. Her family and friends in Russia are too important to her and she was not sure whether she could change all that for just me.

If she had married me in Russia instead without really knowing what was entailed in moving alone to a foreign country her choices would have been limited.