Unemployed? Tough ѕhit

[Marilyn. 340]

i try and save money but something always comes up like the car needs fixing or an unexpected bill needs paying and there goes the savings...

[Peikko 1,575]

i try and save money but something always comes up like the car needs fixing or an unexpected bill needs paying and there goes the savings...

Clearly, you aren't suffering enough. If you were, you would save harder, never mind that saving for poor people is like watching your money disintegrate.

[Ali G. 37]

And those people are free to live where they choose, but don't change the system for those of us who want it.

Granted there again, that is quite possible in the United States. Our states have always supposed to have been basically their own 'mini-nations' protected by the collective so long as they stayed within the boundries of the constitution. You could have a state be completely socialist in the United States, no problem, just as you could have a complete free-market state if you wanted. That's the beauty of it. It's a place for everyone, no matter what you really want, except for a complete dictatorship.

You missed the point I was arguing. It's not about changing the US at all. What I am arguing is the premise of which approach is basically delivering the goods in 2010. America is a republic, therefore, why should the system not change if 'we the people' want it to change? I don't buy this we have done it x way for years, therefore, we should continue doing x. There are numerous positive motives throughout history, that without change would have severely hampered the country's growth - like women being able to vote or the abolishment of slavery and so on.

Look, everyone is entitled to their opinion in first world countries. What concerns me the most is the you have a huge demographic in America, that is uneducated, oblivious to the rest of the world, and quite frankly shoots from the hip. You talk up mini-nations yet ignore the reality of the opposite approach delivering the goods everywhere else. It's like pushing for a five wheel vehicle, because that is what someone thought was best in the 18th century; while the rest of the world in 2010 is using the proven four wheel approach. Actually, the mini-countries approach is what has breed ignorance and the each to their own world attitude that plagues America. The unfortunate reality is what once built the country is now working against it. Furthermore, having everyone do their own thing is chaos and anarchy.

Ultimately, I just don't buy the 'mini-nations' approach. All that is doing is causing more and more friction. After all, "A house divided against itself cannot stand".

[BellaChele68 4]

Sorry, our system was designed this way, for this very reason though.

So the New Yorkers and the Los Angeles types can't run over the rest of the nation.

Hi from Kentucky y'all.

McConnell is withholding support of Bunning.

[Ban Hammer 13,345]

Saving money in a way that brings some benefit to the saver you mean? Saving requires some incentive, and 2% interest per annum ain't it! When the people 'back then' saved, they had a much more realistic expectation that their money would be worth more when they needed it, not less.

agreed that it should have an incentive but unfortunately interest earned is taxable. i'd like to see that change to encourage people to save.

i've set a goal of not dipping below a certain amount in the checkbook just because if something was to happen with the house, i can cover the insurance deductible and still have a reasonable cushion. that and trips to brazil tend to drive my saving habits.

[Ali G. 37]

Even someone making minimum wage has the ability to put away sufficient savings if they try.

My point is that people don't know how to manage their money and people don't plan ahead.

No one 'expects' to lose their job, but those who realize it 'could' happen, do indeed set money aside in a savings account, investment account, etc.. You don't have to be rich to save money and you don't even have to be middle class, you just have to realize your threshold.

To a degree you are right, however, I don't buy this in the US. Certainly not when the minimum wage is $7.25 per hour. I worked out not too long ago that someone receiving unemployment benefits in AUS, actually receives more money than someone on minimum wage working a 40 hour week here.

The average household income in the United Sates is $46,326. How does anyone survive on that who has two kids? How do they pay a mortgage, insurance, buy food etc on that?

Or should we all just go live in trailers in bumf-ckvilee to make it work? All while the Walton's bring in another $10,000,000,000 in dividends for their 'hard work', which is probably taxed at 15% as it would probably be Long-term capital gains

Edited February 26, 2010 by Booyah

[Obama 2012 1,714]

You missed the point I was arguing. It's not about changing the US at all. What I am arguing is the premise of which approach is basically delivering the goods in 2010. America is a republic, therefore, why should the system not change if 'we the people' want it to change? I don't buy this we have done it x way for years, therefore, we should continue doing x. There are numerous positive motives throughout history, that without change would have severely hampered the country's growth - like women being able to vote or the abolishment of slavery and so on.

some would argue those things happening actually hampered our growth.

Like it or not, Slavery at the time was a very good thing. We wouldn't be who we are today and wouldn't of grown like we did if it weren't for slavery. Not saying it wasn't 'wrong' in some ways, but it wasn't always bad either.... The only thing 'wrong' with slavery is not having the choice to leave... many plantation owners took VERY good care of their slaves though to be sure they were healthy/fit enough to produce for them...

Hey and what good ever game out of women being able to vote? Damn sissification of our system

Look, everyone is entitled to their opinion in first world countries. What concerns me the most is the you have a huge demographic in America, that is uneducated, oblivious to the rest of the world, and quite frankly shoots from the hip. You talk up mini-nations yet ignore the reality of the opposite approach delivering the goods everywhere else. It's like pushing for a five wheel vehicle, because that is what someone thought was best in the 18th century; while the rest of the world in 2010 is using the proven four wheel approach. Actually, the mini-countries approach is what has breed ignorance and the each to their own world attitude that plagues America. The unfortunate reality is what once built the country is now working against it. Furthermore, having everyone do their own thing is chaos and anarchy.

Why should we care about the rest of the world? Hell, I think we pay too much attention to the rest of the world (hence the wars we get involved in and we have no business being involved in...).

As for the other part, I'm kind of fond of the wild west/old school America during the late 1800's/early 1900's.....

Ultimately, I just don't buy the 'mini-nations' approach. All that is doing is causing more and more friction. After all, "A house divided against itself cannot stand".

If you know American history at all, you'd know we've ALWAYS been a house divided.

[Ali G. 37]

Paul I have to say it seems to me that you live in Canada and think of these ideas based on the salaries and the protection folks receive there. Had you said what you are saying about Australia, I would totally agree with you. Had Americans been receiving a similar decent salary and benefits, I would totally agree with you. As such, what you are suggesting does not work in the US. The majority of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck.

Illegal aliens and years of outsourcing suppressed wages here; I have no doubt about it. This huge recession is just another blow to this and will ensure the the poor stay poor while the mega rich and businesses milk it for all it's worth. Supply and demand just does not work when you have an unlimited supply of labor.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

To a degree you are right, however, I don't buy this in the US. Certainly not when the minimum wage is $7.25 per hour. I worked out not too long ago that someone receiving unemployment benefits in AUS, actually receives more money than someone on minimum wage working a 40 hour week here.

again. inflation/devaluation of currency play a huge role here and it all depends on where you live too.

The average household income in the United Sates is $46,326. How does anyone survive on that who has two kids? How do they pay a mortgage, insurance, buy food etc on that?

Easy. You don't have kids that you cannot afford. It really is that simple.

Or should we all just go live in trailers in bumf-ckvilee to make it work? All while the Walton's bring in another $10,000,000,000 in dividends for their 'hard work', which is probably taxed at 15% as it would probably be Long-term capital gains

You don't have to live in trailers to make it work.

I'll say it again and again, it's not wages that are the problem, it's inflation/devaluation of currency. You can't fix that problem by raising wages, you only add to it/enhance it.

Capital gains taxes are good for government the lower they are and they would do well to lower the rate even lower to spur more investment. Even Bill Clinton understood this very very well. (well his advisors did anyway).

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Paul I have to say it seems to me that you live in Canada and think of these ideas based on the salaries and the protection folks receive there. Had you said what you are saying about Australia, I would totally agree with you. Had Americans been receiving a similar decent salary and benefits, I would totally agree with you. As such, what you are suggesting does not work in the US. The majority of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck.

Illegal aliens and years of outsourcing suppressed wages here; I have no doubt about it. This huge recession is just another blow to this and will ensure the the poor stay poor while the mega rich and businesses milk it for all it's worth. Supply and demand just does not work when you have an unlimited supply of labor.

I'm a Texan through and through. Born, raised, and even tried living in a 'liberal' state like Minnesota for 3 1/2 years.

and yes, illegal aliens are a huge problem here... no one can truly doubt that one.

[Texanadian 10]

Booyah says that Australia has higher wages and that libertarianism doesn't exist in any practical sense. But what good are wages alone? Wages only matter in terms of what they can buy.

About the sales tax. While adding the sales tax into the price does seem like a nice benefit to the consumer. It also allows governments to raise the sales tax while not alerting the consumers to it. They just think of it as invisible inflation. Australia has 10% sales tax. US states have much lower sales tax rates. Some states don't have sales tax at all. Sales taxes hurt the poor the most as they consume a higher percentage of their income.

A new Corvette in the US costs as much as a new Camaro in Canada.

A new Camaro in the US costs as much as a new Cobalt in Canada.

If anything, it's easier for the poor to live in a low wage state like Texas than it is to live in high wage areas like San Francisco or New York City. Places that have $1500/month rent bills for 300 sq ft 1 bedroom apartments. Forget that!

Look at housing prices between Vancouver and Houston.

Vancouver house

Houston house

Age: Vancouver = 40 years old. Houston = 7 years old.

Size: Vancouver = 1,084 sq ft. Houston = 6,940 sq ft

Bedrooms: Vancouver = 2. Houston = 6

Does it really matter that you might make $5/hour more working in Vancouver than you would in Houston? Not when the median house price in Houston is 115K compared to around 700K in Vancouver.

Libertarianism....It's all around you. You just don't notice it. You have the choice to drive a new Lamborghini or a used Subaru. I think the best demonstration of libertarianism is when you go to the grocery store. Probably why I like grocery shopping so much. You have the choice between stores that have waxed floors and bright lights. Or the choice for a more affordable generic store. Or maybe you want to buy your food at a superstore. You're free to choose the kind of store you want to buy from. And they're free to choose the style of store they want to sell from.

Once you get to the store, you have thousands of choices to make. Each according to the value you place on them. I don't like to scrimp on toilet paper. I'll pay extra for the good stuff. But I will buy no name brand chicken noodle soup. Others want to buy Coca Cola. Yet others may want the cheaper generic brand of pop.....A non Libertarian grocery store would sell one style and brand of bread. You may not like that kind of bread. Tough! They probably won't sell more than one brand of milk. Or have foreign cheeses for sale. (What's wrong with medium chedder after all?) In fact, they probably wouldn't have any foreign brands of ANY goods for that matter.

Libertarianism is in the real world when it allows us the choice to have any many or as little children as we want. In China, you're allowed one or zero. Here, we have the Octomom. Some families have 15-20 kids. Not my personal choice. But they're free to do it. (Just don't make me pay for it)

Libertarianism is alive and well when it comes to homes. The majority of us move away from our parent's place and live in apartments, condos, townhomes, or houses. The style determined mostly by our finances. But also by convenience. Some like apartments because they're often closer to work. YOu don't have to worry about maintanance bills. Some include all utilities paid. Some don't. The Libertarian in all of us is what makes us move away from our parents and struggle to get ahead and live somewhere else. 99% of the time, our first apartment is a dump compared to our parent's house. But we do it anyways. A non-Libertarian way of thinking would mean we'd stay living with our parents until they died. But we'd live under their rules. We'd live by their paint scheme. Their cars would be in the garage, not ours. The music would be turned down because they don't like it. What about the homeless? It's not something I'd wish on anybody. And if we all lived at home forever, a lot of it would be stamped out. But there are winners and losers in life. You can't prevent people from losing unless you prevent people from winning.

[Ali G. 37]

some would argue those things happening actually hampered our growth.

Like it or not, Slavery at the time was a very good thing. We wouldn't be who we are today and wouldn't of grown like we did if it weren't for slavery. Not saying it wasn't 'wrong' in some ways, but it wasn't always bad either.... The only thing 'wrong' with slavery is not having the choice to leave... many plantation owners took VERY good care of their slaves though to be sure they were healthy/fit enough to produce for them...

It's common knowledge that a lot of America's success was built on the backs of others. Who are the modern day slaves? Illegal aliens and Indians who work for peanuts...

Hey and what good ever game out of women being able to vote? Damn sissification of our system

Dude, I hope you have Kevlar protection.

Why should we care about the rest of the world? Hell, I think we pay too much attention to the rest of the world (hence the wars we get involved in and we have no business being involved in...).

As for the other part, I'm kind of fond of the wild west/old school America during the late 1800's/early 1900's.....

If you know American history at all, you'd know we've ALWAYS been a house divided.

This ignorance is why from being the leaders of the free world, America has become the butt of jokes of the free world. You don't care..fine. A simple history lesson though would illustrate that a majority of superpowers have risen and fallen because of this attitude; after all, the US is not the first nation in the world. Rest assured that China and co have their eyes on you like a hawk. With a federal government having $2.4 trillion in liquid cash and an economy growing at 7% to 9%, they are rapidly catching up; as is a number of countries.

What many libertarians I speak to fail to realize is that like it or not, we are part of a global economy now. Long gone are the days when the majority of activity focused around domestic markets alone. Therefore, you either embrace and harness this change or you fall victim to it. Furthermore, the world you ignore is actually where a vast number of American businesses now derive their profits from.

The house can stay divided. Just keep in mind that foreign nations are keen to exploit this weakness using their unified centralized resources.

Edited February 26, 2010 by Booyah

[Texanadian 10]

Wal-Mart....

Personally I don't like shopping there. It's always hot and muggy inside. The store is filled with noisy children. The cashier lines are slow. And the bags they give you aren't much bigger than zip lock bag. I don't like that they strong arm their suppliers and pay little in the way of benefits to their workers.

The poor on the other hand absolutely love the place. They talk about how they're looking forward to going back there next weekend. Or how cheap their goods were after they got through paying last time. I will admit that their labour standards have been the subject of abuse in the past. On the other hand, it's a place where just about anybody can get a job.

Others like that they can go do all their shopping at one store and then go home. Particularly nice when gas prices were high. They always seem to have parking available too.

So the good/bad of Wal-Mart is up to the individual. I don't like 'em. You might.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Booyah says that Australia has higher wages and that libertarianism doesn't exist in any practical sense. But what good are wages alone? Wages only matter in terms of what they can buy.

About the sales tax. While adding the sales tax into the price does seem like a nice benefit to the consumer. It also allows governments to raise the sales tax while not alerting the consumers to it. They just think of it as invisible inflation. Australia has 10% sales tax. US states have much lower sales tax rates. Some states don't have sales tax at all. Sales taxes hurt the poor the most as they consume a higher percentage of their income.

A new Corvette in the US costs as much as a new Camaro in Canada.

A new Camaro in the US costs as much as a new Cobalt in Canada.

If anything, it's easier for the poor to live in a low wage state like Texas than it is to live in high wage areas like San Francisco or New York City. Places that have $1500/month rent bills for 300 sq ft 1 bedroom apartments. Forget that!

Look at housing prices between Vancouver and Houston.

Vancouver house

Houston house

Age: Vancouver = 40 years old. Houston = 7 years old.

Size: Vancouver = 1,084 sq ft. Houston = 6,940 sq ft

Bedrooms: Vancouver = 2. Houston = 6

Does it really matter that you might make $5/hour more working in Vancouver than you would in Houston? Not when the median house price in Houston is 115K compared to around 700K in Vancouver.

Libertarianism....It's all around you. You just don't notice it. You have the choice to drive a new Lamborghini or a used Subaru. I think the best demonstration of libertarianism is when you go to the grocery store. Probably why I like grocery shopping so much. You have the choice between stores that have waxed floors and bright lights. Or the choice for a more affordable generic store. Or maybe you want to buy your food at a superstore. You're free to choose the kind of store you want to buy from. And they're free to choose the style of store they want to sell from.

Once you get to the store, you have thousands of choices to make. Each according to the value you place on them. I don't like to scrimp on toilet paper. I'll pay extra for the good stuff. But I will buy no name brand chicken noodle soup. Others want to buy Coca Cola. Yet others may want the cheaper generic brand of pop.....A non Libertarian grocery store would sell one style and brand of bread. You may not like that kind of bread. Tough! They probably won't sell more than one brand of milk. Or have foreign cheeses for sale. (What's wrong with medium chedder after all?) In fact, they probably wouldn't have any foreign brands of ANY goods for that matter.

Libertarianism is in the real world when it allows us the choice to have any many or as little children as we want. In China, you're allowed one or zero. Here, we have the Octomom. Some families have 15-20 kids. Not my personal choice. But they're free to do it. (Just don't make me pay for it)

Libertarianism is alive and well when it comes to homes. The majority of us move away from our parent's place and live in apartments, condos, townhomes, or houses. The style determined mostly by our finances. But also by convenience. Some like apartments because they're often closer to work. YOu don't have to worry about maintanance bills. Some include all utilities paid. Some don't. The Libertarian in all of us is what makes us move away from our parents and struggle to get ahead and live somewhere else. 99% of the time, our first apartment is a dump compared to our parent's house. But we do it anyways. A non-Libertarian way of thinking would mean we'd stay living with our parents until they died. But we'd live under their rules. We'd live by their paint scheme. Their cars would be in the garage, not ours. The music would be turned down because they don't like it. What about the homeless? It's not something I'd wish on anybody. And if we all lived at home forever, a lot of it would be stamped out. But there are winners and losers in life. You can't prevent people from losing unless you prevent people from winning.

I think I like you

It's a 'culural' thing too of how your raised.

In Italy for instance, it's pretty common for kids to live with their parents until they get married.

[Ali G. 37]

Libertarianism....It's

an ideology I strongly disagree with, as do most countries from the civilized first world. Without law and order, we have exploitation and anarchy.

Edited February 26, 2010 by Booyah