Unemployed? Tough ѕhit

[Ali G. 37]

China fits that bill a bit more....

If we didn't have "the working poor" or "exploited" people then we'd all be 'poor' plain and simple....

People ultimately make choices in their life though. Some make that choice to live the 'poor' life (not everyone) and other choose to better themselves.

We NEED those 'working poor' people though, just as we need the guy in middle management. Everyone serves their purpose.

I don't believe that at all, certainly not in America. Had you said this about Canada or Australia, I'd believe it, as everyone does have access to the opportunity to succeed. The thought that someone in the Appalachian or Ghetto has access to what folks in my area have access to is laughable.

You don't need the working poor and Australia is living evidence of it. The average wage per person is $52K in Victoria, with the unemployment rate dropping to 5.3%, yet people are paid a decent minimum wage. Furthermore, the welfare is 5 fold that of anything available here, and includes health care. The thought that a country would collapse by paying people a livable wage is baseless. What it means is that the Waltons would pocket $10 billion instead of $13 billion. Rest assure, the $10 billion is more than enough to continue paying for the private jets.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Walmart doens't really pay for health insurance that is worth a damn. If you are making only 20 to 25k a year, how the hell do you afford a $4k a year deductible? A lot of their employees don't even sign up for it, or Walmart tries to hire people who get insurance through parents or spouses.

The problem isn't the $4k deductible. The problem is the fact there has to be a $4k deductible.

COST is the main factor in health care.... A company shouldn't have to provide insurance at all.

How useful are stock options when you are worried about how you are going to pay for next months rent, or buy next weeks groceries? Best buy does a pretty horrible job training, with the exception of the mobile department, which is not actually run by best buy, thier employees are the laughing stock of the computer and electronics world. Very few of them actually know what they are talking about.

I'd say the stock options are pretty useful, I know a few people who have cashed them in and bought cars or used them for a down payment on a house.... Again, let's learn personal 'money management.' - Something the people don't know how to do...

In what city is $10 an hour a good wage? Maybe if you are still living at home for free with parents, but who wants to live a life like that? $10 might be ok in a small town well outside of a metro area, but Costco does not open stores there.

Any city in Texas. Of course we are the 'exception' to many other states and the reason why more people are moving here than anyone else.... I actually kind of hate the fact that Fort Worth is still one of the fastest growing and was the fastest growing city in the country from 2002-2007... Way too many 'outsiders' here lol.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

I don't believe that at all, certainly not in America. Had you said this about Canada or Australia, I'd believe it, as everyone does have access to the opportunity to succeed. The thought that someone in the Appalachian or Ghetto has access to what folks in my area have access to is laughable.

You don't need the working poor and Australia is living evidence of it. The average wage per person is $52K in Victoria, with the unemployment rate dropping to 5.3%, yet people are paid a decent minimum wage. Furthermore, the welfare is 5 fold that of anything available here, and includes health care. The thought that a country would collapse by paying people a livable wage is baseless. What it means is that the Waltons would pocket $10 billion instead of $13 billion. Rest assure, the $10 billion is more than enough to continue paying for the private jets.

You can't expect a farmer though to pay farm hands a high wage and still be able to charge the grocer low costs...

Everything has a cause/effect on overall cost and wage is a big one.

and just because the 'wages' are different doesn't mean actual costs are different among nations.

Canada has a higher minimum wage than the US and costs keep going up and things are more expensive there as well, even when the Canadian and US dollar are pretty even.

I can buy a new DVD in the states for $14.99 for instance and it'll cost me $19.99 in Canada... Regular price for newer movies $19.99 US and $29.99 in Canada... Same thing with a loaf of bread.. I can buy a store brand of bread in the US always for $0.99... In Canada I'm lucky to find it for $1.80.

Everything is connected in the cycle of economics. Wages, taxes, overhead, etc.. all contribute to cost,

[Ali G. 37]

In health care you can thank federal mandates not allowing insurance companies to work across state lines. It's easy for companies to be monopolized in an individual state if the state's regulations make it hard for them to get started..... Here in Texas we have many options for health care providers, but many other states don't.

For auto insurance, it is an open-market and works wonderfully. There's actual 'competition' there. Same with homeowners, etc....

A handful of companies operate in the same states anyway, so opening up the market would do little, but it definitely should be open. Then again, the decision ultimately lies with our employer. If they are a cheap skate and don't give a #### about their employees, hence type one company aforementioned, you are stuck with the same provider period.

Auto insurance is not cheap at all here, plus extremely confusing. Down under, I would basically pay $800 a year for up to $10 million in coverage, with a $300 deductible. Once again government regulation forced the insurance companies to make their policies simple for all to understand. They also prevented them from using shifty tactics to increase premiums, like credit scores.

Down under we also have a consumer protection agency which looks out for what is best for the citizen. For example, mandating that a $39.95 cell plan, means I pay $39.95 period. They cannot add taxes and other hidden fees on this amount. Another example is that the shelf price is the actual price paid at the register and includes tax already calculated into the price.

Libertarians and Republicans always seem to look at the negatives of government, furthermore, (conveniently) always tend to ignore the positive side of government. A government is what you make it. I feel both the Australia and Canadian people have done a pretty good job establishing a modern and adequate government; one which places 'we the people' ahead of other interests.

Edited February 26, 2010 by Booyah

[Obama 2012 1,714]

A handful of companies operate in the same states anyway, so opening up the market would do little, but it definitely should be open. Then again, the decision ultimately lies with our employer. If they are a cheap skate and don't give a #### about their employees, hence type one company aforementioned, you are stuck with the same provider period.

Some companies flatly can't afford to pay for better coverage.... Not talking corporations mind you...

Auto insurance is not cheap at all here, plus extremely confusing. Down under, I would basically pay $800 a year for up to $10 million in coverage, with a $300 deductible. Once again government regulation forced the insurance companies to make their policies simple for all to understand. They also prevented them from using shifty tactics to increase premiums, like credit scores.

We can agree on this one, but not all insurance companies do this...

Down under we also have a consumer protection agency which looks out for what is best for the citizen. For example, mandating that a $39.95 cell plan, means I pay $39.95 period. They cannot add taxes and other hidden fees on this amount. Another example is that the shelf price is the actual price paid at the register and includes tax already calculated into the price.

It's not the job of government to regulate price. It's up to people to make a choice to be consumers or not consumers. I'm not a fan of babysitting the stupid. It's just one of those things that I play the 'elitist mindset' and feel that if you want something a certain way, you find a way to do it yourself or you gather and protest it with people like you. Spread the word, etc..

I personally use MetroPCS... It's a flat rate, not credit based, unlimited EVERYTHING including unlimited international calling to anywhere I want to call. It's great.....

Libertarians and Republicans always seem to look at the negatives of government, furthermore, (conveniently) always tend to ignore the positive side of government. A government is what you make it. I feel both the Australia and Canadian people have done a pretty good job establishing a modern and adequate government; one which places 'we the people' ahead of other interests.

We believe in liberty and the people fighting companies, not the government. The only thing that I truly believe government should handle/regulate is fraud/deceptive practices... beyond that, it's an open-market game.

[Peikko 1,575]

Being able to earn a living is not a game - nor is getting what one pays for without having to spend the rest of ones life researching in order to eliminate unscrupulous business. Bad business is not eliminated in a free market, that's a silly fallacy.

[Ali G. 37]

Everything has a cause/effect on overall cost and wage is a big one.

Canada has a higher minimum wage than the US and costs keep going up and things are more expensive there as well, even when the Canadian and US dollar are pretty even.

Everything is connected in the cycle of economics. Wages, taxes, overhead, etc.. all contribute to cost,

Similarly to the health care chart I posted yesterday, you will find most first world countries price goods accordingly, which allows the payment of a fair wage. Third world countries on the other hand are also cheap, hence them being third world.

You are right though, instead of purchasing a hammer for $2.99 + tax USD, I will pay $5.99 (including tax of 10%) in Aus and that allows people to earn a fair wage. People who in turn go and spend and the economy rolls on. It's why more folks (overall) have a decent balance sheet versus countries where just a few control the wealth, while paying minuscule wages; which ultimately does nothing for a country. It's why most examples of this are in third world countries.

[Peikko 1,575]

BY is right, a modern accountable government does work for the people, not against it - the government is the collective wishes of the people, or should be, it's not a separate entity nor is it the 'bogey man'.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

BY is right, a modern accountable government does work for the people, not against it - the government is the collective wishes of the people, or should be, it's not a separate entity nor is it the 'bogey man'.

Have you seen the US House/Senate on both sides of the aisle?

They don't give a damn about the people. They only thing most of them care about is bringing home the $$$ to their districts so they can get re-elected...

Granted, that's why I'm becoming more and more a fan of term limits....

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Similarly to the health care chart I posted yesterday, you will find most first world countries price goods accordingly, which allows the payment of a fair wage. Third world countries on the other hand are also cheap, hence them being third world.

You are right though, instead of purchasing a hammer for $2.99 + tax USD, I will pay $5.99 (including tax of 10%) in Aus and that allows people to earn a fair wage. People who in turn go and spend and the economy rolls on. It's why more folks (overall) have a decent balance sheet versus countries where just a few control the wealth, while paying minuscule wages; which ultimately does nothing for a country. It's why most examples of this are in third world countries.

The only need and reason for higher wages though has everything to do with devaluation of currency.

It's all about the 'buying power' of the currency in the world. That where the problem is.

Wages are fine and have always been fine. It's the increased cost that's the problem. The value of the product never changes if it's the same as it's always been. It's the value of the currency that changes.

Supply and Demand is almost meaningless if the currency is blown to bits.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Being able to earn a living is not a game - nor is getting what one pays for without having to spend the rest of ones life researching in order to eliminate unscrupulous business. Bad business is not eliminated in a free market, that's a silly fallacy.

If people had balls, it would be, in a heartbeat.

A restaraunt doesn't survive unless it has good food at a decent price that people enjoy.

A product doesn't sell unless the people desire it, etc..

The only time people don't have a fair shake is when there's monopolization in the system. We have laws against it, but government doesn't really enforce it so long as the companies with the monopolies keep them well financed in their campagins....

[Ali G. 37]

Some companies flatly can't afford to pay for better coverage.... Not talking corporations mind you...

Which is exactly who will benefit the most from this reform. Australian businesses don't have the burden of health care, therefore a small business is free to concentrate on growing.

It's not the job of government to regulate price. It's up to people to make a choice to be consumers or not consumers. I'm not a fan of babysitting the stupid. It's just one of those things that I play the 'elitist mindset' and feel that if you want something a certain way, you find a way to do it yourself or you gather and protest it with people like you. Spread the word, etc..

I personally use MetroPCS... It's a flat rate, not credit based, unlimited EVERYTHING including unlimited international calling to anywhere I want to call. It's great.....

I am not talking about regulating prices. I am referring to pricing shenanigans. Once taxes and all of the other things are added, an $80 family plan, for example, can end up costing $88 here. Whereas, if I chose an $80 plan abroad, I would only pay $80 when the bill arrived; unless I went over my usage of course.

We believe in liberty and the people fighting companies, not the government. The only thing that I truly believe government should handle/regulate is fraud/deceptive practices... beyond that, it's an open-market game.

What person can fight a $50 billion dollar corporation? This why every other first world country has federal government agencies that protect their consumer.

What happens if I purchase your local power and water company and decide to charged you thousands a month to use them? Libertarians seem to live in some sort of imaginary world where the free-market sorts itself out. A guy called Matt is the resident libertarian on here and I am still waiting for one real world example of libertarian ideologies in practice that actually work. When I look at every other first world country or developing country, quite the opposite is true actually.

Government can be good or bad for a country. It can be the best thing ever or be responsible for the destruction of a country. You cannot just look at the negative and then assume yep, see government is bad. Wrong! You need to look at the overall system of government, what they are doing, who you elect etc. After all it's the government that put Australia on the map and allowed the country to proposer after the 88 crash. Adequate regulation and investment by the government into the country after the crash ensured they avoided a range of recessions; pretty much including this global wipe out. The government built an environment for competition to flourish, broke up monopolies, and invested in their cities enabling businesses to be attracted to move there.

[Peikko 1,575]

Have you seen the US House/Senate on both sides of the aisle?

They don't give a damn about the people. They only thing most of them care about is bringing home the $$ to their districts so they can get re-elected...

Granted, that's why I'm becoming more and more a fan of term limits....

All that proves is that your system is #######, not that the principal of having a people mandated government to perform a oversight role in modern society is #######.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

All that proves is that your system is #######, not that the principal of having a people mandated government to perform a oversight role in modern society is #######.

The problem isn't the system, the problem is that people are easily corrupted.

Make no mistake, all forms of government are corrupted by those with $$$. That's because human beings are running things.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Which is exactly who will benefit the most from this reform. Australian businesses don't have the burden of health care, therefore a small business is free to concentrate on growing.

This reform on healthcare does nothing to address costs and I'll beat that drum loud and clear... until costs are lowered, everyone will pay.

I am not talking about regulating prices. I am referring to pricing shenanigans. Once taxes and all of the other things are added, an $80 family plan, for example, can end up costing $88 here. Whereas, if I chose an $80 plan abroad, I would only pay $80 when the bill arrived; unless I went over my usage of course.

Yeah, but it's not that hard and blame the government for ever-changing fees as well.

Everything has tax on it and that's a given. If people are too stupid to realize that, it's not the fault of a company.

MetroPCS like I said does it differently though.. Flat rate, includes taxes.. That's the market at work. A company giving the people what they want. It's not hard, you just have to find the company willing to dive into it.

What person can fight a $50 billion dollar corporation? This why every other first world country has federal government agencies that protect their consumer.

What happens if I purchase your local power and water company and decide to charged you thousands a month to use them? Libertarians seem to live in some sort of imaginary world where the free-market sorts itself out. A guy called Matt is the resident libertarian on here and I am still waiting for one real world example of libertarian ideologies in practice that actually work. When I look at every other first world country or developing country, quite the opposite is true actually.

Government is suppose to stop corporations from growing too big/buying everything up and monopolizing a system.... I have no problem with governmeng regulating this and never have. It's part of their job. The market can't work 'freely' if one company owns everything, including all said 'rights' to everything.

Government can be good or bad for a country. It can be the best thing ever or be responsible for the destruction of a country. You cannot just look at the negative and then assume yep, see government is bad. Wrong! You need to look at the overall system of government, what they are doing, who you elect etc. After all it's the government that put Australia on the map and allowed the country to proposer after the 88 crash. Adequate regulation and investment by the government into the country after the crash ensured they avoided a range of recessions; pretty much including this global wipe out. The government built an environment for competition to flourish, broke up monopolies, and invested in their cities enabling businesses to be attracted to move there.

I agree there are good and bad points as I have pointed out. I agree with some regulations and not others.