Sorry, nothing to do with anything

[HeatDeath 430]

It's not actually threatening to religion, at least not Christianity. If you actually read what the Bible actually says (I know, crazy, bizarre, radical concept! ), it has nothing to say on the subject. Not. Word. One. All the Bible says is that lusting after someone other than your wife, in a real and serious way, is as big a violation of your marriage vows as actually committing adultery. Which only makes sense.

Masturbation is only a threat to those who want to use control of sexuality to control society. And since those same people are also big fans of using control of religion and religious impulses to control society, and since the wannabe controllers are far more vocal and visible than the actual Christians, it's easy to get confused

Edited February 26, 2010 by HeatDeath

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Why is masterbation so threatening to religion? I don't get it, it's the safest way to experience sexual stimulation, you'd have thought the religious would be all for that

Catholic priests want dibs on their choir boys diсks. Can't have anyone else touching them.

[Calypso 464]

now just work on spelling.

It's not actually threatening to religion, at least not Christianity. If you actually read what the Bible actually says (I know, crazy, bizarre, radical concept! ), it has nothing to say on the subject. Not. Word. One. All the Bible says is that lusting after someone other than your wife, in a real and serious way, is as big a violation of your marriage vows as actually committing adultery. Which only makes sense.

Masturbation is only a threat to those who want to use control of sexuality to control society. And since those same people are also big fans of using control of religion and religious impulses to control society, and since the wannabe controllers are far more vocal and visible than the actual Christians, it's easy to get confused

You got the right spelling. You must be reading a lot about masturbation then.

[Y&E 12]

yes, thank god... because i am sure god was getting all worked up about you having to spend an entire friday at work.

I stand corrected then: Thank f*** it's friday.

I'm sorry that you had such an issue with a common turn of phrase. I would have thought that taking the Lord's name in vain would have offended more people. Is the above more acceptable to you?

[chri'stina 190]

He ruined your thread, you should be mean to him!! He was being annoying to you. He's a well known punk.

[scandal 951]

It's not actually threatening to religion, at least not Christianity. If you actually read what the Bible actually says (I know, crazy, bizarre, radical concept! ), it has nothing to say on the subject. Not. Word. One. All the Bible says is that lusting after someone other than your wife, in a real and serious way, is as big a violation of your marriage vows as actually committing adultery. Which only makes sense.

Masturbation is only a threat to those who want to use control of sexuality to control society. And since those same people are also big fans of using control of religion and religious impulses to control society, and since the wannabe controllers are far more vocal and visible than the actual Christians, it's easy to get confused

Bereshit - Genesis

Chapter 38

8 And Judah said unto Onan: 'Go in unto thy brother's wife, and perform the duty of a husband's brother unto her, and raise up seed to thy brother.'

9 And Onan knew that the seed would not be his; and it came to pass when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest he should give seed to his brother.

10 And the thing which he did was evil in the sight of HaShem; and He slew him also.

[HeatDeath 430]

Bereshit - Genesis

Chapter 38

8 And Judah said unto Onan: 'Go in unto thy brother's wife, and perform the duty of a husband's brother unto her, and raise up seed to thy brother.'

9 And Onan knew that the seed would not be his; and it came to pass when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest he should give seed to his brother.

10 And the thing which he did was evil in the sight of HaShem; and He slew him also.

Onan's sin was not masturbation, it was the pathologically selfish act of defying Levirate marriage (the custom of forcing a brother to marry his brother's widow).

History lesson:

A ) In bronze age Israel, women were generally not capable of earning a livelihood on their own. Girls were utterly dependent on their family, until they married. Then they were utterly dependent on their husbands.

B ) In bronze age Israel a woman who was known not to be a virgin had virtually no chance whatsoever of ever marrying. Even if her virginity was lost legitimately within marriage, remarriage was virtually unheard of.

C ) In bronze age Israel, there was no retirement or social security. Aging seniors became utterly dependent on their children's families for support. A childless couple, incapable of supporting themselves, could find themselves completely without support, begging the streets, if they were lucky.

As a result of points A and B, widows really had the short end of the stick. They were basically completely at the mercy of their late husband's family for support. That's bad enough. But when you factor in point C, it is easy to see that childless widows were the screwed of the screwed. No livelihood, no retirement, no support and no hope.

This is why G-d ordained in the Torah (though the custom was very common in all of the surrounding cultures of the time) that if a man died married but childless, and one of his brothers was available for marriage, that brother was required to marry his brother's widow and "raise up children to his brother", which is to say, have children with the widow, which would be raised with their late father's name. This accomplished two goals which were supremely important to both G-d and bronze age Israeli society in general:

A ) It ensured legal preservation of the family line of the deceased son.

but far more importantly:

B ) It provided for the humane support of childless widows, both presently and in their eventual old age.

What Onan did, by refusing to have children with his brother's wife (primarily out of jealousy, because he knew that any such children would be legally his brother's, and not his) was to spit in the face at not just one, but several of the most important pillars of bronze age Israeli society. His sin had nothing whatsoever to do with anything sexual at all.

Now the Rabbis, in their wisdom, forbid masturbation as part of their "hedge around the Law" - forbidding actions that even superficially resemble breaches of the Law, out of fear of even inadvertently breaking the Law (and there may be some element of the controlling society via control of sexuality that I mentioned earlier, I don't know), but they're barking up the wrong tree here. Ejaculation outside a woman is perfectly legal as long as it is not used as a method of illegal birth control to intentionally flout Levirate marriage.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

so letting your cum spill on the ground is a sin? god must love facials.

[HeatDeath 430]

so letting your cum spill on the ground is a sin? god must love facials.

To the first question: no, see above.

To the statement: I don't think God cares as long as the shooter and the target are married, love each other, and are both enjoying it.

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

Bereshit - Genesis

Chapter 38

8 And Judah said unto Onan: 'Go in unto thy brother's wife, and perform the duty of a husband's brother unto her, and raise up seed to thy brother.'

9 And Onan knew that the seed would not be his; and it came to pass when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest he should give seed to his brother.

10 And the thing which he did was evil in the sight of HaShem; and He slew him also.

Holy onanation, I hope Onan at least got to put his weiner back in his shorts before he was slain. I guess to not be like Er is divine.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

To the first question: no, see above.

To the statement: I don't think God cares as long as the shooter and the target are married, love each other, and are both enjoying it.

shooter and target

[Peikko 1,575]

Bronze age Israel? What the hell is this mad person talking about, anyone?

[scandal 951]

Now the Rabbis, in their wisdom, forbid masturbation as part of their "hedge around the Law" - forbidding actions that even superficially resemble breaches of the Law, out of fear of even inadvertently breaking the Law (and there may be some element of the controlling society via control of sexuality that I mentioned earlier, I don't know), but they're barking up the wrong tree here. Ejaculation outside a woman is perfectly legal as long as it is not used as a method of illegal birth control to intentionally flout Levirate marriage.

I can't comment on how Christians interpret Genesis, but the conventional Orthodox Jewish interpretation is halachic prohibition of any spilling of seed other than through vaginal intercourse in marriage.

For example,

http://www.yoatzot.org/article.php?id=121

Hotza'at Zera Levatalah

According to halacha, ejaculation of semen should take place only in the context of vaginal intercourse (or ####### intercourse, according to some opinions). Ejaculation at other times raises concerns about hotza'at zera levatalah, generally translated as wasting of seed, or hashchatat zera, the destruction of seed. There is much rabbinic debate about the scope of this prohibition but it clearly subsumes a number of issues:

1) The withdrawal method of birth control is prohibited. This is derived from the story of Er and Onan (Genesis 38) where God's displeasure with this practice is expressed.

2) Male masturbation is prohibited. This means that masturbation is not the method of choice when procuring a semen sample. Similarly, this practice cannot be recommended for the solution of medical problems without careful rabbinic consultation.

3) Barrier methods of contraception that do not allow the flow of semen into the ####### are prohibited. This is the problem with the use of condoms, which are almost never allowed. Some authorities feel that diaphragms and sponges also present this problem.

4) Producing a semen sample for diagnosis and/or treatment of infertility is not a simple procedure to permit within halacha. While there is room for leniency for the purpose of allowing the couple to have children, most rabbis will want some workup done first on the wife before allowing the husband to submit such a sample.

[HeatDeath 430]

Bronze age Israel? What the hell is this mad person talking about, anyone?

The time : late bronze age - about 2000 BC, about 500 years before the Israeli Exodus from Egypt.

The place: Israel, or rather Canaan, which would eventually become Israel. Where the Jewish Patriarchs lived before they moved to Egypt to escape famine.

The time and place where the Biblical story of Onan (as quoted above by scandal) takes place.

Edited February 26, 2010 by HeatDeath

[Peikko 1,575]

Not in my history books it 'aint.