Aboriginal leaders: Russian ice dancers' routine still offensive

[Ali G. 37]

Why would a dance by others celebrating a tradition be seen as a negative? In reality, it is actually honoring their heritage.

Remember the KFC ad from Australia involving an Aussie fan siting in a stadium amongst the folks of a country that they were playing cricket against? How they managed to entice them to stop cheering for their country by sharing a bucket of chicken. Certain folks here decried racism. First off, why would anyone think they were out to offend African Americans, the ad had nothing to do with the US. Second of all, why would anyone assume that people abroad actually know any of the labels or stereotypes of a foreign nation. I have been visiting the states for ten plus years and only a few years discovered that watermelon and chicken are negative labels associated to one group. Australians actually like watermelon and fried chicken, a lot.

Edited February 23, 2010 by Booyah

[SMR 368]

Why would a dance by others celebrating a tradition be seen as a negative? In reality, it is actually honoring their heritage.

Remember the KFC ad from Australia where the folks in a country that plays cricket, were enticed to share a bucket of chicken and stop cheering for their country. Certain folks here decried racism. First off, why would anyone think they were out to offend African Americans, the ad had nothing to do with the US. Second of all, why would anyone assume that people abroad actually know any of the labels or stereotypes of a foreign nation. I have been visiting the states for ten plus years and only a few years discovered that watermelon and chicken are negative labels associated to one group. Australians actually like watermelon and fried chicken, a lot.

Seriously, I was born in the US and lived here most of my life and have no knowledge of anything racial to do with chicken or watermelon. I like them both. My wife makes some mean fried drumsticks.

[Ali G. 37]

Seriously, I was born in the US and lived here most of my life and have no knowledge of anything racial to do with chicken or watermelon. I like them both. My wife makes some mean fried drumsticks.

Beats me how a certain food becomes an offensive stereotype.

[SMR 368]

If offended my eyeballs!

I would suggest that this was more tasteless than offensive but then I don't have a degree in aboriginal studies, so clearly my opinion isn't worth a toss

Actually, I think the fallacy here is that your opinion is worth a toss and it doesn't really matter whether or not you have a degree in aboriginal studies.

Unless some hoity-toity "expert" told me this was offensive, I would find absolutely nothing wrong with it. I think that if most people in the world were honest with themselves, they would agree. Don't take offense where none was intended.

[Ali G. 37]

Don't take offense where none was intended.

Civilizations were certainly not built on decrying racism or some other cry baby #######. The societies that turned lemons into lemonade are the the folks that succeeded in life and as a society in general. Certainly not those who cried about where they sat and even in 2010, when they have no honest excuse, will find something like a costume to cry about.

People want to talk about Aborigines, I will talk about them. You know what their culture is in 2010? Getting drunk and having punch on with one another. Don't anyone dare say they are mistreated considering the 5 fold worth of benefits they receive from the government, including even being paid up to $30K in cash grants to get a master degree; which is on top of the absolutely free degree. People like my folks migrated to Australia with nothing yet made something of ourselves. Yet these guys, cry about a bloody costume.

Edited February 23, 2010 by Booyah

[Ali G. 37]

People have built entire careers because of idiocy like this.

• If a black American is even allegedly wronged, Jesse Jackson is first to be seen.
  
• If it turns it that the person he was so adamantly defending solely because of this race, was lying, he is nowhere to be seen
  
• When a member of the community he claims to represent does anything negative, he is never to be seen
  
• When a member of the community, tries to hold people accountable for their own actions (like Obama), he comes out claiming they are 'talking down to his people'
  
• When it comes to the community as a whole, and attempting to rejuvenate it and hold people accountable, he is never to be seen.
  
• As soon as an equivalent story to this one breaks out, their face is on the front cover.
  

It's the same damn story with the aboriginal community in Australia. There is always some disingenuous ####### ready to capitalize on some event.

Edited February 23, 2010 by Booyah

[Revenesque 2]

My dad, a mechanic, was offended by Italy's Samuel Contesi's dirty mechanic dance and costume. He used one word to describe his contempt: "UCKLY"!

[trailmix 77]

the russian couple screwed up, and then took some stuff off their costumes. beyond that, do you really expect ice skaters to spend time, energy and money seeking out elders of various aboriginal communities?

yes, you have a degree in aboriginal studies, so this is important TO YOU. nothing wrong with that. but you have to see the bigger world just doesn't really view this as 'black face', 'buck tooth chinese' or 'drunken native americans' on ice.

I would expect ice skaters to spend time, energy and money to seek out the elders.

Also, it doesn't really matter if the 'bigger world' doesn't really find it offensive.

Edited February 23, 2010 by trailmix

[VanessaTony 3,567]

Civilizations were certainly not built on decrying racism or some other cry baby #######. The societies that turned lemons into lemonade are the the folks that succeeded in life and as a society in general. Certainly not those who cried about where they sat and even in 2010, when they have no honest excuse, will find something like a costume to cry about.

People want to talk about Aborigines, I will talk about them. You know what their culture is in 2010? Getting drunk and having punch on with one another. Don't anyone dare say they are mistreated considering the 5 fold worth of benefits they receive from the government, including even being paid up to $30K in cash grants to get a master degree; which is on top of the absolutely free degree. People like my folks migrated to Australia with nothing yet made something of ourselves. Yet these guys, cry about a bloody costume.

100% concur. I wanted to comment on the comment made by someone that we treat them like ###### but didn't want to start something... can't hurt here though right?

I come from country victoria. Aboriginals in Australia tend to stay up north (for those that don't know Vic is down South). I lived in an aboriginal community for a couple of weeks as my half-sister worked there so that was my first introduction to their culture. Otherwise, I would never have known much about them outside of what I learned in school.

We hear them complain all the time that we're interfering too much. Then we're told off for not stopping access to alcohol (given their rampant alcoholism). Then we try and step in because the alcoholism and (child) rapes are getting out of control. They get paid money by the government simply by "being". I read once that was because it's like a payment to their countrymen for allowing us to use "their land".

It wasn't until I arrived in the US and spent a large amount of time here did I come to learn more about cultures that I would otherwise have not been exposed to, such as Mexicans and African Americans. Having never lived around those cultures, or knowing anything about them (outside of what I see or hear on the news on random occasions) I rarely express an opinion, because obviously, how would I know. In that same vein, unless you are Australia, unless you sit and watch our news (not selectively and not "big" reports), and live through knowing what we know, you can't make assumptions about their culture or they way we treat them.

Australian's are given a bad rap about being "racist". As a whole we're not racist in the slightest, but we do tend to be "profilistic". This doesn't mean we don't give you a chance to prove us wrong but we learn by experience and are more wary.

I personally think the elders flipped out a bit much, but they are an old civilisation with standards different to our own so it's not really our place to decide that they're being irrational. In their culture it was insulting and the Russians, had they done any research would have known that simply by asking the whole issue would have been avoided. It's just a respect thing.

Edited February 23, 2010 by Vanessa&Tony

[Peikko 1,575]

Civilizations were certainly not built on decrying racism or some other cry baby #######. The societies that turned lemons into lemonade are the the folks that succeeded in life and as a society in general. Certainly not those who cried about where they sat and even in 2010, when they have no honest excuse, will find something like a costume to cry about.

People want to talk about Aborigines, I will talk about them. You know what their culture is in 2010? Getting drunk and having punch on with one another. Don't anyone dare say they are mistreated considering the 5 fold worth of benefits they receive from the government, including even being paid up to $30K in cash grants to get a master degree; which is on top of the absolutely free degree. People like my folks migrated to Australia with nothing yet made something of ourselves. Yet these guys, cry about a bloody costume.

The aboriginal people have every right to find a 'caricature' image of themselves offensive and every right to comment on it as such and not surprisingly ordinary folk did find their routine tasteless and silly. The skaters have the right to be tasteless and silly of course, because hey, look they didn't get thrown out of the Olympics or even marked down simply because they were tasteless and silly but they did receive a less than sympathetic response to their routine, which is perfectly reasonable.

However, for you to condemn them as drunkards and consider that to be their 'culture' because of the effects of a couple of centuries of abuse and discrimination is offensive and here's a surprse bigoted. I don't know why you don't get that, but it seems that you are incapable of putting 2 and 2 together.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

However, for you to condemn them as drunkards and consider that to be their 'culture' because of the effects of a couple of centuries of abuse and discrimination is offensive and here's a surprse bigoted. I don't know why you don't get that, but it seems that you are incapable of putting 2 and 2 together.

I'm sorry Cleo but they ARE alcoholics. It's not their culture per se, but it is an unfortunate addition to their culture from present times and influence, and whether you want it to be true or not, it is. There may be a small percentage of people that don't drink, but it's a small percentage.

Unless you actually know anything about their culture, specific to here, then you are just reacting to what you feel, and not what you know. I know.

Here's an article dealing with the alcohol situation: http://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginal...onsumption.html It of course blames us "whites" for forcing it down their throats. Interesting read none-the-less.

Edited February 23, 2010 by Vanessa&Tony

[Ali G. 37]

100% concur. I wanted to comment on the comment made by someone that we treat them like ###### but didn't want to start something... can't hurt here though right?

I come from country victoria. Aboriginals in Australia tend to stay up north (for those that don't know Vic is down South). I lived in an aboriginal community for a couple of weeks as my half-sister worked there so that was my first introduction to their culture. Otherwise, I would never have known much about them outside of what I learned in school.

We hear them complain all the time that we're interfering too much. Then we're told off for not stopping access to alcohol (given their rampant alcoholism). Then we try and step in because the alcoholism and (child) rapes are getting out of control. They get paid money by the government simply by "being". I read once that was because it's like a payment to their countrymen for allowing us to use "their land".

It wasn't until I arrived in the US and spent a large amount of time here did I come to learn more about cultures that I would otherwise have not been exposed to, such as Mexicans and African Americans. Having never lived around those cultures, or knowing anything about them (outside of what I see or hear on the news on random occasions) I rarely express an opinion, because obviously, how would I know. In that same vein, unless you are Australia, unless you sit and watch our news (not selectively and not "big" reports), and live through knowing what we know, you can't make assumptions about their culture or they way we treat them.

Australian's are given a bad rap about being "racist". As a whole we're not racist in the slightest, but we do tend to be "profilistic". This doesn't mean we don't give you a chance to prove us wrong but we learn by experience and are more wary.

I personally think the elders flipped out a bit much, but they are an old civilisation with standards different to our own so it's not really our place to decide that they're being irrational. In their culture it was insulting and the Russians, had they done any research would have known that simply by asking the whole issue would have been avoided. It's just a respect thing.

Interesting and very well said..

People just don't seem to realize that in 2010, the so-called plight of Aboriginals in Australia is a choice, it's certainly not because they are being poorly treated due to their race. These racist Australia allegations couldn't be furthest from the truth..

It's basically a case of you can lead a horse to water but ....

[Peikko 1,575]

I'm sorry Cleo but they ARE alcoholics. It's not their culture per se, but it is an unfortunate addition to their culture from present times and influence, and whether you want it to be true or not, it is. There may be a small percentage of people that don't drink, but it's a VERY small percentage.

Unless you actually know anything about their culture, specific to here, then you are just reacting to what you feel, and not what you know. I know.

Hello, I didn't say that aboriginals were not plagued by alcoholism, I said that the alcoholism was a result of the abuse and racism that they have been subjected to for centuries. I also said that alcoholism was not a 'cultural trait'. Their culture is ancient and unlike the European culture and they have had an extremely hard time adapting. Their culture is nomadic and it is exceedingly difficult to adapt a nomadic culture to the European norms, particularly if Europeans simply take their traditional lands from them and expect them to 'fit in'.

[Ali G. 37]

I'm sorry Cleo but they ARE alcoholics. It's not their culture per se, but it is an unfortunate addition to their culture from present times and influence, and whether you want it to be true or not, it is. There may be a small percentage of people that don't drink, but it's a small percentage.

Unless you actually know anything about their culture, specific to here, then you are just reacting to what you feel, and not what you know. I know.

Here's an article dealing with the alcohol situation: http://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginal...onsumption.html It of course blames us "whites" for forcing it down their throats. Interesting read non-the-less.

That is the reality. It's also a case of damned if you help, damned if you do not..

[Peikko 1,575]

Interesting and very well said..

People just don't seem to realize that in 2010, the so-called plight of Aboriginals in Australia is a choice, it's certainly not because they are being poorly treated due to their race. These racist Australia allegations couldn't be furthest from the truth..

It's basically a case of you can lead a horse to water but ....

No, it really isn't. You are being extremely offensive in suggesting that their plight is simply a result of pigheaded obstinacy.